Only labour voters welcome

I have strong political views and enjoy the debate on these posts, but feel that it can be counterproductive to try and persuade anyone with strong political opinions to change what they believe, and the more counter arguments they are presented with the more they become entrenched in their views. But hey it's fun trying.

I agree, no point in evangalising, just putting your own views forward.

Could somebody please explain the difference between communism and socialism?

I always understood that communism is a form of socialism. I don't think any "communist" country has ever decribed itself as communist, but socialist. (Could be wrong)

In what way is the Labour Party communist?

I suppose a country can call itself what it likes - Socialist, a People's Republic, even People's Democratic Republic, etc but if it is a totalitarian state ruled by the Communist party then in essence it is a Communist country even if they do not describe it as such themselves.

I didn't know the Labour Party was communist

Jalima many totalitarian states aren't communist and the ruling parties don't call themselves communist. There is no state in the world today, which is run in the way Marx envisaged.

Both communism and socialism are defined as the common ownership of the means of production. Communism was just one way of achieving that.

Communism is one form of socialism, of which there are dozens of different forms.

When people claim that Corbyn is a communist and he wants to turn the Labour Party into a Communist Party, I'm interested in what they actually mean.

I know that, durhamjen, I posted a couple of political things, was just explaining that I intended to go back to my usual trivia/waffle!

As you were, Gladiators!

Read this evening - labours Big Beasts demand

Who are these big beasts? John McDonald and Rebecca Lang-Baily

My two small terriers are closer to being big beasts than these two

They actually mean they don't like him daphnedill

Communism, as practiced in the USSR and China, means the State is in total control of all the production and services, and there is no private business at all.
Socialism expects a mixed economy. The state looks after essential industries like water, fuel, education & transport and takes care of the welfare of those in need. Otherwise people can run their own businesses, employ other people, and make a fortune, as long as they pay their fair share of taxes.
We have never had communism here, but for quite a while we had a successful socialist Keynsian economy, until Thatcher changed the rules.
Corbyn is not and never has been a communist of any sort. But Blair and New Labour were only slightly socialist, since he carried on with Thatcher's economics mainly. We are just getting back to the mainstream left now .

Have you seen this, yggdrasil?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/29/labour-heartland-voters-turning-blue-blair-post-industrial-corbyn-fourth-way

I don't think any "communist" country has ever decribed itself as communist, but socialist.
Jalima many totalitarian states aren't communist and the ruling parties don't call themselves communist. There is no state in the world today, which is run in the way Marx envisaged.
When you said has ever daphnedill I assumed you were meaning now and in the past although I did reply in the present tense.

And I think your second statement is reiterating exactly what I said - that a state can call itself exactly what it likes.

It does seem strange, however, that communist states preferred to use names such as 'People's Republic' or 'People's Democratic Republic' particularly when they have murdered a proportion of their populations.

Working out well for the people of Venezuela , no food, no medicine , plenty of corruption and those at the top couldn't care less as long as their communist/socialist ideology survives.

Marx had very little to say about what a country would look like after the revolution. Don't forget that during the period he was writing there were many utopian ideas around, and this is reflected in his writing. Socialism and communism does differ in Marxist writing. Socialism is seen as the transition of a country between capitalism and communism. But he does not explore either concept in any depth, and their subsequent description largely comes from the way USSR and China have evolved, not I would argue a Marxist concept at all.

But Jalima communism has more often than not been used as derogatory term by detractors. Nobody has explained what they mean by communism, hard-left or leftie, which is surprising because people lob the terms about quite freely. Surely they know exactly what they mean...don't they?

I'm genuinely interested in a proper political discussion, but as only Labour voters are welcome (and I'm not one), I think I'll toddle off elsewhere. Maybe somebody somewhere else can explain what communism means.

and they are, presumably, not suffering the impact of these deprivations themselves.

The loyalists are being armed now so woe betide anyone who protests on the streets because there is no food, no medicine.
Maduro still looks relatively well-fed, however.

yggdrasil

Both China and Russia (and even Cuba) have private ownership. None of them would call themselves communist.

Ask yourself if you would like to live in a Communist country such as China, North Korea, Venezuala, Russia.

My response is NO.

PS, I agree with you that Corbyn is not and never has been communist.

Perhaps communism is used as an abusive word because we have seen the effects of it over the last few decades.
The same for fascism.

I prefer a happy democratic medium with all its faults.

but that is only an opinion .....

Well, so do I. I'm reading a book called "50 ideas you really need to know about capitalism" by Jonathan Portes.

Portes claims that one of the most successful economies of the last fifty years, Germany, can't conveniently be labelled as left or right. Its defining characteristic is pragmatism, especially since Merkel became Chancellor.

It's just that words such as "communism, "socialism", "trots", "far left" are used so frequently, but they can't really be discussed, unless everyone is clear what they mean. I'm not convinced people are clear. And don't start me on fascism! It must be even more misused than communism.

Also just read an article called "What so many people don't get about the U.S.working class", which would equally apply to the UK.

hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

Where did you get that from,daphne?
I like Jonathan Portes.