VERY IMPORTANT NHS News!

What were handover times like in the places that were shut?

Our closest A&E was shut some years ago. It's a long way to the nearest one now.

I keep composing posts and then deleting them. I shall continue to ponder apparent imponderables to myself. One main problem does seem to be that we are not willing to pay more for our health care. Another is that it's not altogether clear that what we have is the envy of the rest of the developed world at all. I read a post quite recently from someone saying she got better health care in France than she would get here for whatever condition she had.

BTW, dj, I really hadn't heard of STPs. Had to do some googling just now. But I hadn't mentioned that I hadn't heard of them so am puzzled why you mentioned that you couldn't believe I hadn't heard of them. Just saying. It's not really important.

It's happened in Northumberland. All A&Es closed, a new one built in Cramlington. They have very wide corridors for the trolleys to wait on.Only been open less than two years, and already only 70% of handovers are within time.

Exactly!!! Privatisation by stealth.

It seems to me that the right are reconciled to privatisation, but are not entirely confident that they can take the country with them, but they are working on it, be in no doubt. The privatisation that the right envisages will be the stuff of nightmares for the poor and jolly uncomfortable for the middle.

Why isn't the broad left demanding a dialogue?

Yes our hospital sites are being sold off. Its not just England. The NHS board I worked for had dozens of clinic buildings all over the region which they are keen to 'rationalise' down to larger scale community clinics with hospital type services in them. The main hospital has been built on the outskirts of the city and its old Victorian building in the centre of town sold off for housing.
It's not very convenient for us personally but I can see the rationale behind it. The new location suits the majority of people it's just our luck that it's so far from us!

Up here we've tried to find out what is going on. We ask for FOI requests and are told it's commercial confidentiality. We are not allowed to find out how much Virgin owns.
This government said it would be open, but it's more secretive than ever before.

Totally agree!

That is my argument exactly!! If and it is a big if the NHS is going to disappear in its present form as appears to be happening in say dj health centre, then I think there should be a national conversation about what we want. The trouble is by avoiding this conversation, in the hope that the worse doesn't happen, the Tories are continuing to sell off lucrative chunks to their friends. It is happening slowly but surely and we on the left are doing bugger all to save it it seems to me.

That quite often happens on threads about the health service, Nikki.
You'll get used to it.
Someone will start a thread saying how good the NHS was when she/her mother/ her father was in whenever.
They won't notice that it's disappearing until it's gone.
My health centre is owned by Branson. Couldn't do anything about it because we were not told it was happening.

durhamjen I think you might be wasting your time

The Naylor review is actually called NHS Property and Estates.

Buildings and land, daphne.

The Naylor Review isn't about selling off functioning hospitals. It's about selling off land for other purposes ie asset stripping.

Apart from the payment model, the big difference between the NHS and the German healthcare system is that Germans (including pensioners) pay much more than we do in the UK.

Isn't your and bags NHS different anyway? You both live in Scotland.
NHS estates is English. Are your hospitals being sold off?

Not really dj - it's selling land for housing or whatever. It will no longer have anything to do with the NHS or even healthcare.

Outsourcing is about providing health service by private providers.

I'm with you on this thatbags. We can't stay the same. Things have to change to reflect the current demands, new treatments and resources. The Swiss and German systems look interesting.
The NHS needs to be looked at outwith the typical parliamentary terms ie not something to be used for propaganda by any party. Not privatised but not necessarily free for all at every point. Non profit making.

Isn't selling the NHS estate privatising and outsourcing the NHS?

2013 we had a big top-down reform of the NHS. We are now in the middle of another big one, changing to STPs.
I can't believe that you have not heard of them, bags.

As anybody who had actually read it knows, the Naylor Review isn't so much about the privatisation or outsourcing of the NHS, but the sale of the NHS estate.

Estate worth at least £2 billion is earmarked for sale. My town is growing rapidly, has a hospital which is hardly used and desperately needs to upgrade and expand GP services. We have campaigned to retain the hospital, to provide minor ops, an out of hours service and low dependency beds. The public is overwhelmingly behind the proposals, but the land is worth more to developers.

At one time, we had three local hospitals. Two were sold years ago and the third is being prepared for sale. Nearly all services have been transferred and there are no wards left. It's probable that housing will be built on the land, which will increase the need for medical services...hmmm.

bags yes!!

I looked at all the various European health systems at one time, and whilst few are funded by private entities, most are a mixture of the state and a form of nonprofit making insurance.

I think they work rather well, I was particularly impressed with Switzerland and Germany.

I'm saddened by the reaction of some of these replies - this is information on what is going to happen to our NHS, the tories have categorically stated they won't sell it off, but it certainly doesn't seem to be the case when reading this report.

I'm just shocked that we aren't all wanting to protect what many other countries are envious of. We won't really know how good a service it is until it's gone and I just hope that some of you who don't support a party that wants to save it never have to use it in an emergency.

Just been checking some recent history, from the left-leaning New Statesman, that it was a Labour government that started bringing private money into the NHS while Andy Burnham was Health Secretary. Does that mean he's a right wing Tory now?

My feeling, for what it's worth, which is probably not much, is that the NHS is in desperate need of large reform. Some of it is not working very well at all. I don't know what the reforms should be but I know reforms are needed and have been needed for quite a while.

What I am in favour of is health care across the board that is free at the point of receipt, which principle is, I think, the fundamental one on which the NHS was founded. If that principle is adhered to I don't really care how it is achieved, whether all by taxation or by a combination of taxation and private money. What matters is that it works properly.

Is it not true that health services in some other European countries are funded by public and private money? Is it necessarily true that putting some private money into the NHS will make it worse?

Genuine questions because I really don't know.

I know ana it is my opinion just as we on the left are so frequently told. I am entitled .to my opinion. I have no facts to present with this opinion.

The fact that none of them is disputing it shows my opinion to be fact.

Rubbsh! The fact that none of them are disputing it either means they haven't read this thread or would prefer to keep their own counsel on the subject.

Either way, no way is your opinion fact.