Democracy hahahaha

I remembered reports of it Jalima (not just in the yellow-tops either) and being concerned about the health aspects as well as the sheer impression that the country was sinking into a disorganised hell.

I had three young children at the time.

Quote about rubbish and unburied bodies (from wikipedia) as some seem to think that these are false memories.

I am not sure who you are accusing here Elegran but I haven't read anyone's post of saying the people quoting this particular event have a 'false' memory of these events - I certainly wasn't. I think those of us around at the time were certainly aware there were some problems in some parts of the country. What I would point out is that if you set you whole life views based on one event you are probably going to have a biased view.

When I landed on the island of Cyprus at the age of 12 there were no problems there. On our way home from the airport we were stopped and someone stuck a gun in through the window while they questioned my father and the friend who was driving us. I did not immediately decide that I could never trust a Cypriot. I learned about the reasons that had caused problems and tried to take a reasoned view on the people living there.

It seems extreme to me to set your political views against one political party because, almost 40 years ago, a small group who where outside the actual Labour Party (although affiliated I have no doubt) made life difficult for you by withdrawing their labour because their wages were being frozen - something they were perfectly entitled to do.

I was beginning to think I had imagined that period of my life Elegran after reading the denials of it ever happening!

Nandalot yes, I do remember that too, but I am just saying that life under Labour was not perfect either, but I am either a liar or patronising because no-one else remembers that or they have rose-tinted spectacles.

All of which is why I am of the opinion that those who are not staunch members of any particular party are the ones who effect change because if one party is in for too long they become arrogant and complacent or just incompetent.

which is the point where we may be at, or very nearly, at the moment, but no-one seems to understand the point I am making.

Apparently one has to be staunch Labour or true-blue Tory to post on here - if you're not with them you're against them!

Quote about rubbish and unburied bodies (from wikipedia) as some seem to think that these are false memories. The whole article is worth reading. There are probably a whole lot more articles about it, but this is the first I saw.
Incidentally, inflation peaked at 26.9% in the 12 months to August 1975. This is why many people baulk at the prospect of "quantitative easing" as a solution to monetary problems - they remember runaway inflation.

"Gravediggers' strike

A notorious industrial action during the winter, and one which was later frequently referred to by Conservative politicians, was the strike by gravediggers, members of the GMWU in Liverpool and in Tameside near Manchester. Eighty gravediggers being on strike, Liverpool City Council hired a factory in Speke to store the corpses until they could be buried. The Department of Environment noted that there were 150 bodies stored at the factory at one point, with 25 more added every day. The reports of unburied bodies caused concern with the public. On 1 February a persistent journalist asked the Medical Officer of Health for Liverpool, Dr Duncan Bolton, what would be done if the strike continued for months, Bolton speculated that burial at sea would be considered. Although his response was hypothetical, in the circumstances it caused great alarm. Other alternatives were considered, including allowing the bereaved to dig their own funeral's graves, deploying troops, and engaging private contractors to inter the bodies. The main concerns were said to be aesthetic because bodies could be safely stored in heat-sealed bags for up to six weeks. Bolton later reported being 'horrified' by the sensationalised reportage of the strike in the mass media. The gravediggers eventually settled for a 14% rise after a fortnight's strike.

Waste collectors

With many collectors having been on strike since 22 January, local authorities began to run out of space for storing waste and used local parks under their control. The Conservative controlled Westminster City Council used Leicester Square in the heart of London's West End for piles of rubbish and, as the Evening Standard reported, this attracted rats.

On 21 February, a settlement of the local authority workers' dispute was agreed, whereby workers got an 11% rise, plus £1 per week, with the possibility of extra rises, should a pay comparability study recommend them. Some left-wing local authorities, among them the London Borough of Camden, conceded the union demands in full (known as the 'Camden surplus') and then saw an investigation by the District Auditor, which eventually ruled it a breach of fiduciary duty and therefore illegal. Camden Borough councillors, among them Ken Livingstone, avoided surcharge. Livingstone was Leader of the Greater London Council at the time the decision not to impose a surcharge was made."

Jalima the power cuts and hence the need for candles started during Heath's Prime Ministership and continued under Harold Wilson. Both political parties then.

Queens speech been put back.

Sinn Fein cant accept a DUP/government coalition.

If they cant get the QS through its tantamount to a no confidence vote

We were in the GLC area.

Good post Strugglinabit

Well in 1977-78 I lived in 3 different areas. First a rather nice council estate in a Northern town, second a not so nice block of council flats in a different Northern town, third a nice area of private housing in same northern town. I never saw any rats, don't remember any rubbish but don't know about any bodies. I was out and about a fair bit pushing DS1 in a pram so did see a fair amount of the surrounding areas.

All of which is why I am of the opinion that those who are not staunch members of any particular party are the ones who effect change because if one party is in for too long they become arrogant and complacent or just incompetent.
On January 15 1979, Shore joined the prime minister, James Callaghan, and the rest of the Labour cabinet to discuss whether the national situation had deteriorated so seriously that troops should be brought onto the streets and a State of Emergency declared.

In that sort of climate the electorate had had enough and voted in MT, and as they demonstrated 11 years later, they wanted change again.
Perhaps the Tories are now reaching that point and the electorate is looking towards a new approach.

The floating voter will be the one who decides.
Why would anyone wish to antagonise them?

Calling them silly or patronising when they state a fact is bound to have a negative impact.

Did you really live amongst rubbish, rats and unburied bodies Jalima.
Yes Gracesgran (but not amongst unburied bodies - obviously!) - we had to move to a much more expensive (but nice) area because after months out of work, DH found a job in another area. Across the road from our houses was a green area where piles and piles of rubbish had been dumped, behind our garden was a communal garden where people had dumped their rubbish including unwashed tins etc because no rubbish was being collected; the streets of nearest large town were littered with rubbish and the rats were everywhere including very large ones walking across our garden which was a shock so I could not let the children play out. It was very unpleasant indeed.
I'm glad you did not have to experience that yourself.

And yes, a family member died and we had to wait weeks for the funeral.
There was Legionnaires disease in the local hospital so the thought of having to go in there or having to take one of the children there was frightening too.

And I remember 1976 very well, trying to keep a new baby cool!

Don't be patronising, Jalima.
why on earth was my post patronising?
Read it again.
no, I didn't have children when Heath was prime minister so the candles, the bakers' strikes etc were definitely not then.

Well written, a pensive reply Greta, without any put-downs, just reflection.. what all the population needs right now.

The mess that has been created is entirely self-inflicted. We are now in it because David Cameron thought the result of the Referendum was a given. What is extraordinary is that Theresa May repeated the same mistake when calling for a General Election. Is it all a game to them? Sadly, it is the ordinary people who will have to pick up the pieces. Nothing new there.

Gove wants to get rid of habitat directive to build houses on nature reserves.

Oh!!! And where Mr Gove is that in the manifesto? Mad as a box of frogs

I am glad you answered Maizie as the continued reference to the note is really tiresome. As you say, and has been said soooo many times, it was a joke. Each outgoing Treasury secretary wrote and left an 'in joke' note to his successor - not factual, just a joke. In this case it was made public. If all the notes had been made public it would be interesting but fairly pointless reading.

most recently the note "There's no money left" says it all.

I keep saying this but that is just prejudice speaking (opinion not based on fact) Strugglinabit. Show us the facts! It is not true. For a start we, as we are a sovereign country we could not be in a position where there is no money left - that is as fact. It is possible to show that the same facts interpreted differently, argued differently but not having a fact at all to back your argument is just an arrogance that asks us to measure your opinion of one small life (all our lives are only a small part of the whole) against facts.

You are also, very high handedly, suggesting all people who have voted for 50 years think as you do - they don't. We all live in a bit of a bubble with our views often being upheld or at least not challenged by our friends. We can also select only to read information which does not challenge our views but it must be obvious to you that People who have voted for over 50 years have different memories to yours. Some also fact check these memories and find if they are true or not.

It would appear that facts can be distorted to only fit own's own beliefs

Very true. All you say is very true and it applies equally to you as it does to anyone else.

It would appear that facts can be distorted to only fit own's own beliefs, which is sad. I also believe economists have a range of opinions, it it important not to just seek out those that agree with one's own views and we all know how experts can get things wrong. Statistics get skewed especially if one wants to believe them to be right, one only has to listen to the news media on different channels.
What is sad is the nastiness that has soured any meaningful debate, the shouting and bad manners demonstrated on television, the gloating of the young interviewed who relished putting 'two fingers up' to any authority, whichever view you support. It shows the worst of human nature when we should all be working together for the good of all, not just old or young or even those in between... Spending more than we earn is a disaster for families, borrowing payback costs more because of interest rates, there is on easy solution, so all parties should put their minds and talents to solving the dire situation we face ourselves in. Democracy means we have a say, but it also means we should then try to supply solutions.

People who have voted for over 50 years, remember how each Labour government left a debt legacy - most recently the note "There's no money left" says it all.

That is absolute nonsense. It's the tories who have left a worse legacy than Labour every time. There are official, government produced, figures to prove it.

The 'no money' note was A JOKE. As has been pointed out on several threads.

During my (almost) 50 years of voting I can vividly remember a tory poster attacking Labour's record when unemployment was at 1,000,000.(labour isn't working' it said.

When the tories came to power they rapidly upped that figure to 3,000,000. But that's OK, of course because those nice caring,careful tories did it...

No wonder austerity becomes necessary, but that is very unpopular.

The majority of economists agree that 'austerity' is a huge mistake. Once again, this has been pointed out on several threads recently, we've even had very helpful video links explaining how 'money' works.

Debt doesn't seem to frighten the young as it does the old

Oh, so that's OK then.

How bizarre; you condemn labour governments for apparently getting into debt but it's fine for the young to be saddled with enormous debts at a very early stage in their lives. Very nice...

Does no-one ever 'hear' what is being discussed.

Does no-one ever change, even very slightly, change their minds when they are shown the facts that challenge the myths they believe in?

I think it sad that there is this 'generational' division over the reasons for the result. Although this is a grans page for discussion, some grans may be in their thirties and oldies in their 80's! Young people think the oldies have had it easy, free higher education, able to buy their own house and a job for life; the difficult war years, out at work at 14 years of age and the self-denial that enabled people to save and buy their home. Higher education was free because fewer numbers had the privilege of attending; increase the numbers attending and the costs rise. The same goes for the NHS with population increase and school pupil numbers. Houses again were affordable with strict budgeting, but the increase in population means house building can never keep up. Jobs have become more difficult, competitive and transient in nature, whilst machinery and robots play a part now. People who have voted for over 50 years, remember how each Labour government left a debt legacy - most recently the note "There's no money left" says it all. No wonder austerity becomes necessary, but that is very unpopular. Taking more from the rich has proven to lower the yield but that fact is overlooked. Debt doesn't seem to frighten the young as it does the old. Rational debate has gone and an attempt to see another point of view, is sadly missing. How do we understand them, and 'them' us, without discussion?

I remember NHS staff going on strike because of low pay and cuts. NUT on strike because of cuts in the number of teachers. We didn't have rubbish piled up in the streets or bodies unburied where I lived.

Brilliant & very succinct post Madmeg, as we move on in life, it is easy to forget those previous & some times dark days. It all a terrible mess at the moment isn't it. Can't see where it's all going to go at the moment, but we have survived worse( I think??)

I don't care Jen - I said so - I was just interested why we suddenly had some people from mumsnet suddenly joining us. It's all good but interesting.

Perhaps you were too young to remember it MaizieD but I had two small children and it was miserable

Did you really live amongst rubbish, rats and unburied bodies Jalima. I, with my two small children, just did not have that experience. It was very difficult during the three day week though -'73 if I remember rightly - when we had to have a special allocation of coal for the fire as it was our main heating at that time and we had a toddler.

I must admit even that pales into insignificance by comparison to my thoughts of the summer of 1976 with a baby, small child and me (with OH after work - I doubt it was as good for him) out in the garden all day long under the shade of the trees - now that is my memory of the 1970s.

But it is so long ago! We have a different world and politics need to fit the changes making a life for us all not the money grabbing, 'when I've got it you're having any of it even if you supplied services that aided me in getting it' attitude of the Conservatives.

It's all good isn't it - we just all need to keep it going.