Brexit negotiations starting tomoorow

Sorry, but the Tory government makes loads of decisions for us, and I think it's a really bad thing.
Can I change that as well?

Brexit- bring it on asap and then the UK can start to do its own trade deals around the world and watch the EU shake its head and wonder where it all went wrong for them. As far the Ireland situation pans out, I hope they decide to follow us soon. Why anyone on this site would think it was a good thing to have someone else make life's decisions for them, I cannot begin to understand.

No it isn't,Luckygirl, as you will see from my articles written by EU legal experts, as opposed to Kate Hoey and Labourleave.
Actually, as has been said before, most of our utilities and railways are owned by other nations, particularly the railways. We pay high fares to subsidise their railways, which has nothing to do with the EU.

"absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"- arch brexiteers Daniel Hannan and Nigel Farage shown during the EU referendum campaign assuring us that we would stay in the single market.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce

I am sure that the leavers can come up with other quotes of people who said we would leave, but the point is there were lies, contradictory statements, obfuscations - people did not have a clear picture of what their out vote could lead to.

There's nothing that we Remainers can do now except sadly sign petitions, even though we know that they will be ignored, and wait for the consequences of cutting ourselves off from the market and the community that is Europe.

So utterly depressing.

Is nationalization against EU rules? I was not aware of that - perhaps you could back that up for me SharonJ - thank you.

If it is the case, no wonder the nordic counties do not want to be a full part of the EU. And I would see it as a very good reason to leave - nations should have the right to make their own decisions about such matters.

Durhamjen, You seem to think your articles are unbiased? Words fail me.

Again, Sharon, that's Labourleave.
Biased!

That's good, Sharon, you use an article written by Kate Hoey to persuade me that you are right?

Somehow, I don't think she is unbiased. In fact that's an article she used to scare people into voting for Brexit. In 2015.

And... from my Labour Leave update by email on 9th June 2017:

"The Labour manifesto, which caused such an upset last night, could not be fully implemented if we either stayed in the EU or opted for a 'soft Brexit'. EU rules would forbid the full renationalisation of either rail or utilities; they must be 'markets'.

EU rules on state aid would render any sort of active industrial policy impossible. Free movement of labour would hinder any efforts to either resolve the housing crisis or increase low end wages for working people."

theconversation.com/left-wingers-for-brexit-need-to-wake-up-to-what-theyre-about-to-do-61259?sa=pg2&sq=nationalisation+and+EU+rules&sr=6

"If a left-wing British government tried to renationalise the railways, or any other utilities, the EU would be the least of its worries. The main obstacles would come from within the UK, most notably from the private sector and, indeed, the electorate. British voters are – whether the left likes it or not – far more economically conservative than most of continental Europe.

Any British left wingers thinking of voting to leave the EU over these issues should perhaps instead consider leaving Britain. "

From the article.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/renationalise-railways-what-no-one-will-tell-you-we-cant-while-were-eu

We are talking about perception here. I can tell you that many Labour voters were happy with the Labour manifesto because it favoured a hard Brexit.

The Labour party manifesto was not in favour of a hard Brexit. I voted for it. I think I would have noticed.

theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180?sa=pg2&sq=nationalisation+and+EU+rules&sr=1

Nationalisation is not against EU rules, either.
Where did you get your information from?

durhamjen, Nationalisation is part of the Labour manifesto. It is against EU rules. The Labour manifesto was in favour of a hard Brexit and that clearly would have been in the minds of many who voted Labour during this election.

The referendum only asked about leaving the EU - NOT the customs union or the Single market - they are not synonymous and we did not join them all together.

Many people voted tactically in the GE to give the Tory's as few seats as possible - in some seats it was pointless to vote anything but Labour to oust the Tory or not let them steal the seat by dividing the vote - not because of a view of Brexit. It might have been interesting if Corbyn had come out in favour of remaining - the great majority of MPs still think that is the best route and it is quite possible that the population will too when they see just what being out of the EU does to the UK.
The EU will be poorer too as the UK often brought sense to decisions - the continentals liked that about the UK too.

But, newnanny, you can't say that those who voted for Labour and Tory were voting for Brexit. I voted for one of them (guess which!) and I was certainly not voting for Brexit.
The manifestos were much more than Brexit, no matter what May wanted it to be about.

Good post newnanny??

labourlist.org/2017/06/may-should-put-brexit-talks-on-hold-and-bring-labour-on-board-for-advice/

The government this morning still had no idea what Brexit meant, and had not sent their opening position papers to the EU.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-opening-position-papers-government-yet-to-send-submit-latest-news-a7792531.html

Lim Dems clearly stated they would keep GB in Custom Union and Single Market. They were only party to do so and only got a few seats so clearly not a popular choice. GracesGranMK2 all parties clearly set out in manifesto what their view to Brexit was. Most people would surely have taken that into account before making their choice. If not what is point of any party setting out their views in manifesto. Polls with just a few thousand will not be representative or accurate of whole population so more or less useless. I suppose the only poll that really mattered was in June last year and that was to leave the EU. Last JUne I looked very carefully at both sides of argument and what both sides stated it would entail as I'm sure did most others who voted. Brexiteers made it clear to vote out would be to leave Single Market and Customs Union.

Which parts, SharonJ?

It wasn't necessarily about leaving the EU, but more about how we should leave the EU.
May called the election to ask for her hand to be strengthened. It wasn't, so she should now rethink the Brexit strategy.

For many voters the recent General Election was not about Brexit so I do not believe any meaningful correlation can be drawn between the Election result and current views on Brexit.
In any case, the Labour manifesto states we will leave the EU ... and there are parts of the Labour manifesto (which the unions will be pressing for) which would be illegal under EU rules.

Upsetting the Good Friday Agreement, and rekindling divisions in Ireland seems to me one of the most dangerous possible consequences of Brexit, but I can't remember this being discussed at all in the run up to the referendum.

newnanny - how arrogant to assume you, or any politician, knows why people voted how they did. I most certainly did not vote in the GE for staying in and I totally reject any assumption that I did.

The figure of 80%!keeps being mentioned but if May fought the election with a view to strengthening her majority to deal with Brexit, that does not seem a stunning endorsement of Brexit. This poll on whether it was right to vote to leave the EU shows both sides neck and neck whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ . Most polls at the moment are being conducted on the terms of the deal, should there be a referendum on the terms etc. rather than support or not for Brexit as in the original referendum so this was the only one I could find.