London Fire -2

"Those doors may be the ones that you go through ( to access ) each floor, but they wouldn't be used as front doors to the flats."

Each flat needs to have a fire door. Not each floor.
Time you stopped digging, roses. Your knowledge is very poor. All you have to do is look up the building regs.
Surely you can do that.
Frankly,your posts to me make no sense whatsoever.

oh, your usual silliness durham always looking for a fight aren't you ( you could start one in an empty room.)

Cop out, roses.
You are always making statements you cannot justify.

What is silly about fire doors being where they should be?

I will leave you to argue on an empty thread.

Bloody hell. Housing minister on Newsnight saying they have to learn the lessons and make sure it doesn't happen again after being accused of wanting to cut red tape!
If you want to know about how the regs allowed the use of this cladding you need to watch tonight's newsnight. Then watch David Lammy getting angry about the cover up of numbers.
It makes me angry.

One of David Lammy's complaints was that people are stopping caring so much. They will bring the real numbers out in a couple of weeks time.

Same on Channel4.
Brandon Lewis no leg to stand on. He told Emily Maitlis that he wasn't in charge of housing, he was in charge of fire regulations!

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2017/06/26/channel-4-news-grenfell-tower-fire_n_17299682.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Eloethan

"Why people were so angry at Kensington & Chelsea is because groups of residents had reportedly raised these concerns over a significant amount of time and they were ignored."

Yes as apparently residents in other council areas have also made reports of concerns in other boroughs!

So my point is it is not an issue for just one political party and it is has been a case of selective finger pointing to suit a political agenda by many who are now suddenly quiet as the shit has hit the fan at their door too.

Rigby46 Mon 26-Jun-17 01:00:00

" What a thoroughly ridiculous post -POGS - heads should still roll at K&C and if you can link me to the evidence that all the other councils ignored the concerns of tenants then I'd say the same about them. God you lot on the right are so good at completely rewriting whar was said on threads to fit your own agendas."

I hope your eyes are opened Rugby because the fact there were in fact multiple inspection failures regarding safety at Camden. The mention of fire doors being just one.

So again I say to you.

So my point is it is not an issue for just one political party and it is has been a case of selective finger pointing to suit a political agenda by many who are now suddenly quiet as the shit has hit the fan at their door too.

durhamjen Mon 26-Jun-17 08:53:08

"Some of those who received those threatening letters are now dead. Not a very pleasant post, POGS."

You do twist posts don't you .

"By the way, POGS, do you never listen to local radio or watch local news?

It's on Radio Newcastle at the moment. Probably on your local radio, wherever you live."

What a stupid question full stop.

How the hell can I listen to local news or radio news other than my own so what maybe on Radio Newcastle is of no relevance to me. Why would my local radio or news be reporting as yours does.

You have been vocal in your condemnation about Kensington and Chelsea but I am at least noting you have made reference to Camden Council failing in safety aspects too.

When Councillor Georgia Gould, Leader of Camden Council was interviewed the impression she gave was the residents were evacuated because of the cladding but it transpires there were multiple safety issues.

Yet she was being hailed at the time as providing good governance in some quarters. Maybe it was good governance but it was also to cover their backs from any potential negative comments they knew would be coming down the line.

My point is this is not a one party problem , only if trying to make it so. There will be many councils of various colours that will be found wanting I have no doubt.

Nope certainly not one particular colour of council at fault, but all were subject to -what will almost certainly to be judged in later years as unnecessary austerity cuts leading to all councils trying to cut corners.

Whitewave

Mon 26-Jun-17 09:31:42

"An announcement can and should be made along the lines

" The following information is known - x known to have lived in the Tower. Y known survivors. XY remains found. Any further information will be given out as soon as available".
"And we promise to stop treating people like fools"

Go to the rate payers list, voting lists, rent list, mortgage lists. School children - easy to find."
-

Extracts from the Statement in Parliament by PM on Grenfell Tower Fire. 22.06.17

" As of this morning, 79 people have been confirmed dead or listed as missing presumed dead – and with work still ongoing to recover the bodies, sadly the death toll may rise further."

"And I would also like to reassure people that we will not use this tragic incident as a reason to carry out immigration checks on those involved or on those providing vital information to identify victims or those assisting with the criminal investigation.

We will make sure that all victims, irrespective of their immigration status, will be able to access the services they need, including healthcare and accommodation."

So I ask you Whitewave. How can you know factually how many people were / are residing in 'any' property, let alone tower blocks, if illegal sub letting takes place which we are surely all aware happens throughout the UK.

The official figures can only be given on the number of bodies found and the number of residents who have made themselves known to the authorities.

There is a likely scenario that anybody who has sub letted their flat will have made themselves known and will get a new home and hope nobody finds out what they were up to . I doubt there will be anybody with a conscience and admit they were subletting to x amount of people, I could be wrong.

When councils began to build multi-storey blocks my father was a senior fire officer.
I remember he told me that they were probably the safest homes in town because of the solid concrete between floors, the absence of gas and the high-riser system (hydrant points on each floor and water tank on roof) as granny 23 described.
After drilling through the concrete and installing gas as part of the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, a serious, spreading fire might well have happened even without the cladding which made it a disaster.
This conversation with Dad was in Scotland (in the late 60's I think.)

Whitewave 12.27

Had there been no money allocated to Grenfell Tower then I could understand the arguement but when a refurbishment costing I believe £8.6 million had taken place I fail to see how Austerity Cuts come into the equation in the case of Grenfell Tower.

It is becoming apparent this is not a new problem and it looks like buildings have used similar cladding going back 20 years.

I am not making excuses but this tragedy from it's start has thrown up many accusations that are proving to be of a political motivation rather than factual evidence.

If and when there are any prosecutions to follow that is the correct time to apportion blame, in other words when the evidence is conclusive. If anybody has 'cut corners' at the expense of safety they deserve all that comes to them if that is the case whether it be contractor's, councils or individuals.

Does the flats in the evacuated tower block in Camden have fire doors on every apartment entry?

Kensington council are still been criticised yet not a peep about Camden , where are the MP's for Basildon?

No criticism of fire safety officers either, all the L/A's have made the same mistake,

Did the building firms who fitted the cladding not have anyone who attended day groups to learn about fire safety? We are a small firm but we do.

May has been called a murderer on this forum, was all the cladding fitted in the last 12 months?

Why not a discussion on all this? Not only excited posts if Lammy speaks

I do not believe one of these L/A's did a shrugging of the shoulders and said - if anyone dies they die, we will save money so it's worth it

Informative article from the BBC about why high-rises keep failing fire tests:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40418266

Grant Shapps has some questions to answer, at the very least:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMU0hRMoB6Y

'There was/is a politicisation of a human tragedy and those who have crowed the loudest are now finding themselves in similar circumstances, MP's included.

Why are the questions being asked a week ago not being asked of other councils ?'

This is what you asked POGS. I was just telling you that they are being asked of other councils. They are probably on all local radio programmes that I know of, including yours. Have you listened, or are all your high rise flats okay?
So no more of a bloody stupid question than yours.
At least I was more polite than you in responding.

Yes, high time accusations against Kensington Council and Conservative austerity went quiet until we all know the true picture.Political capital should never be made against a tragedy.

Various people, police, Firemen, David Lammy, have mentioned there being one room where there were at least 40 bodies, all gathered in the same place possibly to do with Ramadan.

They are obviously not in these figures.

Actually a lot have gone quiet, which is good, all except McDonnell making his accusations of murder ( meaning austerity cuts.)That man will say or do anything.

Bloody hell, roses, you really do stick up for the wrong people, don't you?
Not the underdogs who lost their lives in the tragedy, but the rich council who saved money by not spending on fire alarms, sprinklers, etc., but gave rich residents a £100 rebate that they saved by not buying these things.
You don't have to join in. You don't have to even read the thread if it offends you so much that we criticise these people.

This is why the people of Camden have been moved out.

www.24housing.co.uk/news/evacuated-tower-blocks-missing-1000-fire-doors/

Do all the other tower blocks have fire alarms and sprinklers ? This is so cruel using death and grief for political jibes

durham as usual you go too far.
I am not 'sticking up' ( playground term!) for anybody , but the tests show that tower blocks and public buildings just about everywhere have been using similar cladding.Going back years, so not all to do with any 'austerity' measures.
Most people prefer to wait for the inquiry results before shouting 'evil Tories' as you are wont to do in almost every thread!
The faults cannot be hidden, it will all come out, and I suspect more than one council will come in for close scrutiny.

But it is to do with the mentality of cutting "red tape".