London Fire -2

I think David Lammy would know better than most of us what the ideal judge would be, having been a barrister himself.

He states in the article what he would prefer:

Re the judge: “He is a white upper middle class man who I suspect has never, ever visited a tower block housing estate and certainly hasn’t slept a night on the 20th floor of one.”

“The job is not just to be independent and judicious, I’m sure he is eminently legally qualified, of course he is but he is also to be empathetic and to walk with these people on this journey and to sit with them and understand that their lives were in the hands of the state and something badly, badly failed,” Lammy explained on Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday.^

“It’s a shame that we couldn’t find a woman to lead the inquiry or indeed an ethnic minority to lead the inquiry in 2017 and I think the victims will also say to themselves, when push comes to shove there are some powerful people here – contractors, sub-contractors, local authorities, governments – and they look like this judge. Whose side will he be on?”

As a judge I hope that he will be on the side of justice whether he is a white, upper-middle class, male or a black female who grew up in a tower block.
I hope that he will be above any pressure from contractors, sub-contractors, local authorities, governments.
As a judge he should be so, and as he will be aware of any criticism from certain quarters of his lack of impartiality (whether true or not) then he should ensure that he is sympathetic and not afraid of seeing that justice is done.

To choose a judge who thought it was okay for Westminster Council to send a tenant fifty miles away from friends and relatives shows a distinct lack of judgment to me.

mcem
He did say that the judge is white upper middle class. No chap on his shoulder, then
He wants a woman to lead the enquiry: what about the male residents.
He wants an ethnic minority person to lead the enquiry: what about the white residents.
This is where the left wing pc brigade back themselves into a corner, hence my post with suggestions that covered everyone.

'In one 2014 case, Moore-Bick said Westminster council could rehouse Titina Nzolameso, a single mother with five children, more than 50 miles away in Milton Keynes. He ruled that it was not necessary for Westminster to explain in detail what other accommodation was available and that it could take “a broad range of factors” into account, including the pressures on the council, in deciding what housing was available.

In April 2015, the supreme court reversed his ruling, pointing out that the council had not asked “any questions aimed at assessing how practicable it would be for the family to move out of the area”. '

Why should the Grenfell survivors trust him?
He has already told them that they will not get the answers they want.

It brings us back to that question about whether you need to have experienced what another person has to feel empathy.

I am not sure that empathy is the right emotion for a judge. He or she can feel the utmost sympathy for the Grenfell Tower residents, the families of the deceased but above all he or she will have to remain clear-sighted and to find out exactly what went wrong and why within the parameters of his brief which are quite limited, otherwise the enquiry could be very protracted.

The judge leading the public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire has expressed doubt that the probe will be broad enough to satisfy all survivors.

“I’ve been asked to undertake this inquiry on the basis that it would be pretty well limited to the problems surrounding the start of the fire and its rapid development in order to make recommendations about how this sort of thing can be prevented in future.

Women Court of Appeal judges – 21%

Women High Court judges – 21%

Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME, who declared their ethnicity) judges in courts – 6%

BAME (who declared their ethnicity) judges in tribunals – 10%

They could have chosen someone who was not a white male.

Which leads to the question about whether or not a more thorough and lengthyenquiry will take place in the future.

This enquiry has parameters which would seem to be to find out exactly what went wrong and to put this right nationwide which seems to be a matter of more urgency at present.

"I am not sure that empathy is the right emotion for a judge. He or she can feel the utmost sympathy for the Grenfell Tower residents, the families of the deceased but above all he or she will have to remain clear-sighted and to find out exactly what went wrong and why within the parameters of his brief which are quite limited, otherwise the enquiry could be very protracted."
Exactly, Jalima - judges are only human as well.
And personally (I'll probably be shouted down on this) I'd rather live in Milton Keynes than in a tower block in London. I've been there a few times recently, to one of the main shopping malls.

With respect ILovecgeese, if you were in H/B dept you would be the last to know would you not ?

Why not white male? We have so many posts quoting David Lamme - a black politician, no one has said they have a problem with that. Were there no white males living in the tower block?

It's a B isn't it, that even before the Judge starts work, he is being judged and found wanting on the basis of one case, which was successfully appealed. Most Judges will have made a decision that was successfully appealed.
i don't know enough about his career to decide on his credentials for this piece of work. Thanks durhamjen for the statistics. I wonder if HHJudge Kushner would have come out of retirement to chair this enquiry? She is a brilliant Judge, with the right kind of approach and experience.
It's a serious issue. Wishing the Judge appointed wasn't a white, upper middle class male who was successfully challenged on a Housing issue doesn't seem to me to be pc backing itself into a corner.
I'm prepared to support the Judge appointed. this inquiry needs to get off the ground

Tricia not if you and your five children were being moved away from all your friends and relatives.
He was wrong anyway. It was overturned on appeal as he hadn't considered any of the social effects of the move.

So, David Lammy isn't prejudiced when he alleges that a white male judge would be,mmm, double standards.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bethnal-green-fire-blaze-block-of-flats-east-london-a7819081.html

Nobody in the flats this time.

It isn't about prejudice from David Lammy. It's about the fact the Judiciary remains a predominantly white, male, middle class preserve. It seems inevitable that as none of the residents of Grenfell Tower will have been in the same social, educational, class group as this a Judge, a level of anxiety and suspicion is likely. If the councillors hadn't confirmed those fears, maybe the Judge wouldn't have been greeted with such suspicion.

Like I said earlier, he/she would be found lacking, no matter what. But I was accused of making a "ridiculous statement ". Ridiculous, but accurate.

Chewbacca
And there was i basking in the glory of posting the 'ridiculous statement'
I wish posters would tell us who their wrath is directed at.

Who has resigned from Kensington and Chelsea?
Three white middle-class males.

Why should the people of Grenfell Tower have faith in another white middle-class male?

As I have shown earlier, 21% of judges are female. 6% are BAME.
Why not choose someone whom the residents will have more faith in?

So all that is needed is a black/Asian female judge who lives on the twentieth floor of s council owned tower block, no problem there then

Do you have anyone in mind that will fit your criteria durham ?

No, Annie. All that was needed was for the government to make a sensible appointment of someone who wouldn't be seen as part of the same establishment.
They singularly failed that test.

This is so racist, because many residents of the tower block are not white they should be allowed to select a judge they feel more comfortable with? A judge is a judge and David Lammy should not play the race card.

Must any black/Asian wrong doers only be interviewed and arrested by black/Asian police officers.

Did Lammy complain there were white doctors and nursing staff tending the victims, did he complain there were white firemen ?

So the judge has been judged and it hasn't even started yet. Lammy is another using these victims to score political points .

annie exactly!!
I think that corner I spoke about earlier is getting more and more crowded.