London Fire -2

Thank you Elegran and Darnsarf. A tough skin is definitely required when posting on the news and political threads as there's always someone wanting to find "instant fault" with posts they don't agree with rather than producing a sensible and coherent alternative.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/06/grenfell-fire-proof-cladding-specified-by-architects-only-used-on-ground-floor

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/06/grenfell-tower-disaster-tory-attack-social-housing-public-sector

Nick Forbes was the person who was sent emails by mistake about Surrey getting more money for social care.

"The Grenfell Tower fire inquiry hopes to hold its first public hearings into the cause of the disaster in September as it prepares to seize council planning archives.

Sir Martin Moore-Bick, the chairman, is expected to hold further meetings with bereaved relatives, local residents, survivors and interested organisations next week in a push to resolve the inquiry’s terms of reference.

Until those terms are approved by the prime minister, Theresa May, and lodged with parliament, investigators cannot begin taking evidence."

Why does May have to agree to the terms?
What if the enquiry finds the government culpable?
Should May be able to fix the terms?

I honestly don't that think that TM has any power or leverage left in this - she will 'agree' the TofR he puts forward in the sense of 'rubber-stamping' them- it's just a procedural nicety. As for culpability and blame - it's going to be complex, multi-layered and multi-faceted. I think it will include Governments going back until at least TB's. (as well as all the other players)

I think Sir Martin is behaving with dignity , being yelled at and accused of things he will do , in the opinion of some, yet he is still returning to listen to them

I agree with you ab he is certainly behaving with dignity. Nobody should expect to choose the kind of person they want to head an inquiry, and he has plenty of experience to call on.

Channel 4 May being interviewed about Grenfell - still in Bot mode and still saying exactly the same as she said 3 weeks ago!

She is a real and present embarrasment

The Tower has apparently moved this week

They had to clear it of workers a couple of times.

I would not want to be in there; they are very brave.

What about the houses close by?

If it does fall, it should fall straight down. However, the neighbours are worried.

The alarms go if it moves more than 3 mm. They are being ultra-careful.

Bloody hell. Did i hear that asbestos was released with the fire and fell onto the surrounding area?

All government information about Grenfell.

www.gov.uk/government/collections/grenfell-tower

I think that was reported a while ago whitewave
www.gov.uk/government/news/public-health-advice-following-the-grenfell-tower-fire

Asbestos was fairly extensively used, Artex ceilings for instance, contain some asbestos. Safe if contained unless something like this happens or unless broken or drilled into when dry.

I don't mean it was extensively used at Grenfell Tower, I mean it was extensively used in buildings generally, mixed into plasterboard, Artex etc.

So the homeless tenants want the enquiry delayed ?

www.24housing.co.uk/news/grenfell-no-evidence-taken-until-pm-signs-off-on-inquiry-terms/

I should think TM has to agree to the terms because she's the PM and whoever was PM would have to do so.

Instead of Sir Martin being verbally abused, why doesn't everyone just let the poor man get on with this onerous responsibility.

With so much flack being directed at him, I doubt if anyone else would want to take it on.

Smileless, I expect Sir Martin is experienced in coping with 'flack'. That doesn't mean I believe it's acceptable to shout down a public servant who accepted this complex piece of work, if the shouting is based largely on him being part of the Establidhment, or the fact he was successfully appealed on one Hoysing matter.

I commented earlier on this thread that the majority of our Judiciary are Establishment, they were privately educated (though Sir Martin wasn't) then went on to,prestigious universities. Judges are impartial, their job is to interpret the law, not judge the issues on a class basis. I heard some people accuse him of being patronising, that wasn't my impression, I thought he behaved and spoke alpine a very experienced Judge. They aren't generally given to high expressed emotion.

Good post Iam. I'm sure he's had more than his fare share of flack to put with over the years. He is as you say an experienced Judge and the inquiry needs to be conducted in a professional manner.

It goes without saying that the victims, their relatives and friends are understandably angry and highly charged with emotion but those carrying out the inquiry can't afford to be if it's to be conducted properly.

Just announced - Grenfell fire: Police say 255 people survived the blaze.

"Police say "extensive investigations" led them to conclude 350 people should have been in the Kensington tower block on the night of the blaze on 14 June.

That night, 14 residents were not in the building, leaving at least 80 people dead or missing, the Met said.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Chalmers, leading the Met's operation, described the task as "unprecedented".

In the update on Monday, police said the coroner had formally identified 32 bodies.

Scotland Yard believes that about 10 people escaped the fire and are unwilling to come forward.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40557126

I'm glad some firm information has been announced, but very sad for those who still hoped against hope their missing loved ones were alive somehow. The two brothers who lost 6 members of their family - their mother, their brother and his wife and their three young children - will always stay in my mind.