London Fire -2

GGMK 2

" That comment is just as bad really as suggesting they want an answer 'now' is. "

I take it you did not listen to the Statement nor the responses by our MP's.

I am not ' suggesting ' anything I am reporting factually.

The focus should be on what happened, what will happen using an intelligent measured response not demanding an answer from the PM on technical details 'now' as some MP's were doing.

Theresa May gave a perfectly valued reason why she was waiting to hear the report findings , hopefully being carried out ASAP and filed within the next 48 hours, to ensure the appropriate ' facts ' were known if any prosecutions were to follow.

Jumping on a band wagon of anger may be appropriate to some but I prefer a pragmatic, constructive debate any day. I would think those in the Grenfell Tower tragedy are wanting to see a mature, intelligent response to this problem too and sometimes partisan politics is just not appropriate.

As I said and will reiterate for the most part this was happening and our MP's made valid comments without the need to succumb to it.

Well said POGS and gillybob
The inquiry will show exactly what happened.

The five stages of grieving are for a personal bereavement.

MP's demanding answers now is just plain stupid....end of!

This is not a time for anger but sensible debate and comment

After a death anger is a natural response. The five stages of grieving are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance and everyone - MPs are human too - who has any empathy with the people who lived in the tower, will feel this.

I would be more worried if they didn't. What would be good is if this could be turned into a passion into finding out just how this came about and to ensure we pay the debt we obviously owe to the people who were the victims of the failures. A big chunk of the anger driven passion would be well used in going into ensuring the building of enough good, low-priced housing.

"Disgusting and shameful politics."

That comment is just as bad really as suggesting they want an answer 'now' is. Well worse in my opinion as this is just rhetoric whereas the MPs have voters to answer to and, hearing how many building they have now found covered in the same cladding, they will be going back to be asked many angry questions back in their constituencies.

Luckygirl

"People are angry - give them a break. MPs are people too."

This is not a time for anger but sensible debate and comment. MP's should use their allotted time to say something that makes a contribution not use their time to rid them of anger, what will that do for the people involved in the Grenfell Tower tragedy at the end of the day. They need our politicians to show authority and display they are working together to make sound decisions on theirs and our behalf.

I would have hoped , for once, this level of tragedy deserved a non partisan view and the need to understand what went wrong, how to deal with the problems caused would be of more interest than point scoring , especially as the PM had once again made a personal apology for the failures at the initial time of the tragedy both at the local authority and government levels.

Having said it I own it but the point scoring was not my intended agenda. So I will say thank goodness the structure of the Statement and subsequent questions by the back benches were for the most part constructive whether they be challenging the faults , failures or what needs to be done in the future.

Sickening to hear the deaths if those poor people being used by some labour politicians to gain popularity.

What was it Corbyn said when elected leader , oh yes ' I want to bring a kinder politics . mmmmmmmm

Yes I can understand people being angry Lucky but MP's demanding to be given the findings of a report before it is even available is just plain stupid. and these are the people we are supposed to trust to look after our best interests

And, of course, insurance companies are notorious for using 'the small print' for avoiding paying out on claims. They will probably try to shift the blame to the LA or the contractors and leave people going round in circles

Exactly Jalima

People are angry - give them a break. MPs are people too.

The opposition benches keep asking her why can't she tell the House the answer NOW

I would have to question the mentality of anyone who suggests that the Prime Minister should give answers "NOW" before she even has the full report available.

Disgusting and shameful politics.

Theresa May is being asked repeatedly about the legality of the material used in the panels.

She has stated that tests are being duely undertaken and a report should be available hopefully within the next 48 hours..

The opposition benches keep asking her why can't she tell the House the answer NOW.

Theresa May eventually told them they can shake their heads as much as they like but they should also understand that if any Prosecutions or legal procedures are to go ahead then the required procedure , testing and result must be carried out properly.

I am not surprised but the partisan politics being displayed ' by some' certainly not all MP's is quite depressing to hear over such a tragic affair. I obviously do not mean those who have something constructive to say of whom there are many.

I saw a report that the flats would also be furnished - that is great too and will give the families a boost as well as a new start. I would imagine that whoever is paying for the furnishings would only be sourcing basic things so I hope each resident also gets a cash sum to make their homes feel comfortable for them.

Another difficulty some people may well be facing is getting to work and also having the correct clothing etc - has anyone seen anything about that aspect of people's lives.

If you can and are interested in understanding the 'known so far' facts watch Parliament Live or watch it later by the various technological means.

Example.

Theresa May stated that the property block owned by Berkeley Builders has been sold to authorities/government at cost price and they are now trying to get it finished ASAP for the residents to take possession.

Theresa May mentioned many points such as there will not be an immigration check on anybody who lived in Grenfell Tower , the rents will be the same, any financial help given will not be detrimental to their benefits etc. etc .

And, of course, insurance companies are notorious for using 'the small print' for avoiding paying out on claims. They will probably try to shift the blame to the LA or the contractors and leave people going round in circles.

Jalima the fact of the cyanide gas being given off was also on one if the TV News channels - not the BBC - I watched Sky, Aljazeera, France24 etc this morning too so not sure where the second report was.
There is also a report today that the residents agreed one type of cladding but the Council chose to use a cheaper one.

Gawd! This is going to be legal minefield!

Yes POGS I heard that, thought it was very good.

Does this mean nobody knows exactly how many people lived in the building and who they were?

There could have been visitors, others away so the calls for an exact number before it is exactly established could cause distress to relatives.
One blind man was thought to have perished in the fire but his son found him later on; he had been put into an induced coma and no-one knew who he was understandably. The priority of hospital staff would be to save him.

Very awkward situation if you owned one of those flats, I wonder where you would stand?
Presumably some of the flats had been sold, as council housing has been over the years, and presumably the owner would have insured the property therefore the insurance company should pay out. The LA has a duty to re-house the residents of the flats not the owners, who will have to go through the process with insurance as any property owner would have to do.

I heard on the radio this morning that some of that cladding gave off cyanide gas when burning and that some of those in hospital are being given an antidote. If that report is true, and it was a BBC report - what were they thinking to allow that?
Welshwife I may (or may not) have put a link on another thread about building inspection and specifications; although this type of cladding would have been against regulations, once erected it is apparently difficult to tell the difference between the fire-resistant cladding and the one used.
However, that was from someone not involved and no doubt an enquiry will get to the truth of the matter.

Live on BBC Parliament free view 130.

Statement from the PM Grenfell Fire.

Theresa May has just given a Live Statement to Parliament using a contrite tone and if you listen to what she has said all is made clear and answers the questions posters have been asking.

I know I will be mocked but she gave a comprehensive Statement and I hope the terrible trauma the residents have suffered will be the priority and not the politics nor apparent hatred of Theresa May but that may prove to be a stretch too far for some I fear.

It is interesting to listen to Parliament and of course you cannot beat hearing from the horses mouth and not rely on the media or activists blogs who sadly have their agendas that sometimes cross into partisan politics.

I don't know either - GN gremlins?

I've done a little research on this and I think the City of London Corporation had already bought the flats (which haven't yet been finished) as part of its social housing stock.

There was, as I'm sure you know, some pressure for empty property in the borough to be requisitioned. I suspect what's happened is that the government got to hear about this development and insisted that Grenfell Tower survivors were put at the top of he list.

Apparently, the flats haven't been allocated and rents haven't been decided. "Affordable" rents would be much higher than current Grenfell Tower leaseholders pay, so there needs to be some agreement. It's possible that money raised through charity will have to be used to make up the shortfall. This isn't the end of the accommodation issue - yet.

Grenfell Tower had some three and four bedroom flats. I don't know if there were any survivors from them, but they will have to be found accommodation elsewhere.