Food Banks

I think this part has been misinterpreted: “To have charitable support given by people voluntarily to support their fellow citizens I think is rather uplifting and shows what a good, compassionate country we are,”

It shows what a callous, incompetent government we have, also.

If JRM was praising volunteers giving help because of some emergency or disaster, that would be fine.
To praise them while, at every opportunity, voting to increase the hardship which makes their work necessary, is stunning hypocrisy.

Agreed, FarNorth. There are times when knowing a bit of background and reading between the lines are necessary.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/13/councils-must-act-to-combat-destitution

"Local welfare assistance schemes are a vital lifeline for people who find themselves in a crisis and without basic essentials, such as food, electricity, or a working oven. It is therefore very worrying that most of these schemes have been cut back considerably in recent years and that 26 local councils have now closed them altogether, including in many areas that we represent (English councils’ local welfare schemes in ‘meltdown’, 12 September)."

Rees-Mogg obviously hadn't acquainted himself with this.

Interesting and measured article at Fullfact, day6. Thanks for the link.

"The report doesn’t say or prove that sanctions are the only cause of food bank use, but the researchers do say it demonstrates a “strong, dynamic link” between the two."

Sanctions = removing a person's only source of income, for varying lengths of time.
So it seems pretty likely that that would lead to them needing to use a food bank.

Rees-Mogg's great-grandfathers were doubtless uplifted to hear that their wives and daughters had been out delivering nourishing broth to starving families living in squalid housing. They probably owned the squalid housing as well. Not much changes.

trisher - Oh and Day6 the reason the welfare state doesn't work very well is because we have a government who don't want it to.

The leftist blinkers you wear cloud your judgement. People who have very little in life are supported by the state.

Like people who work, they have to cut their cloth according to their funds. They have to budget and manage the money they are given in benefits. Many who work have little or no disposable income and lead very restricted lives and go without many of life's luxuries too. How would Corbyn solve that problem?

Those same low earners may be taxed on their earnings. Workers pay taxes so we can support the welfare state and ensure those with little are funded. You know this.Workers struggle too.

What will Corbyn do to make it work then Trisher. Do tell.

As stated, there are many reasons why people need food banks, too many to list here, but if they are in receipt of benefits but cannot afford to buy food, perhaps more analysis needs to be done as to WHY they cannot buy food with their benefits.

Will Corbyn be visiting food banks saying to those needing food..."Oh here. You'd better have another hundred quid from state funds. You're poor" should he become PM?

Do you really think he'll be throwing money at benefit recipients - because any economist will tell you, that will be fun to watch! How will he and a militant Labour government solve the problem - in one fell swoop, given you claim the present Conservative government 'don't want the benefits system to work"?

Occasionally, you do have to ask why people cannot manage the money they are given. I know many people hit rock bottom, have circumstances which bring them down and they can lose everything, but every claimant at a food bank has to have a reason to qualify for a voucher to get food...and they are assessed by social workers, doctors, health visitors.

One would hope most claimants are in temporary need. If that is not the case then we need to discover why their lives have stagnated and why they cannot buy food. I'd say that sort of research is vital.

I imagine you and Comrade Corbyn want to throw money at the problem. Fine, but you'll have to throw some the way of millions of workers and those on pensions too, in the interests of fairness of course.

£10 per hour minimum pay will go towards that.
People on minimum or low pay spend their money into the system. People on high pay squirrel it away, often in tax havens, and don't support the system.
Surely that is well known by now.

Many many workers have money 'thrown' at them by the state because greedy employers don't pay them enough to live on and so do many pensioners because their pensions are inadequate - of course, many well off pensioners also have money 'thrown at them' such as WFA but that's another story.....

People on high pay squirrel it away, often in tax havens, and don't support the system.

Yes, so how do you stop that happening? The tax havens are legitimate, unfortunately. If you banish the high earners or make them pay their dues (which they should) they take off for somewhere else. I completely agree that there should be no loopholes but London is a magnet for the uber wealthy. Do we close the doors, confiscate their Lamborghinis and Bentleys? How do we get them to pay up?

Come the revolution, how do you stop the rich buying up London and investing their wealth elsewhere? Would a Labour government be keen to deter them, given all the knock-on financial implications? Genuine question.

Many many workers have money 'thrown' at them by the state because greedy employers don't pay them enough to live on

Exactly, and migrant EU workers keep that system going, accepting appalling pay and conditions in order to work. They are used and abused in order to make massive profits for their employers. The knock on effect is that indigenous, skilled and unskilled workers have to take or leave low wages. The system of benefit top ups plays right into the hands of greedy employers.

The EU is a capitalist's dream and I am surprised any socialist can support the way in which it has kept wages low. Many Unions express the same sentiment. The abuse is scandalous but it's no wonder so many billionaires want us to remain in it.

This is why I question Cobynomics. Getting people into work and ensuring they are paid a proper living wage is vital, but how is the money raised?

The tax breaks given to the lowest paid workers a couple of years ago, by our present government, were a step in the right direction, as was the raising of the minimum wage.

We have food banks now, and India does too, and the USA and many European countries so despite much progress and successive left and right wing governments since I was a hungry child in the 50s and 60s, poverty hasn't been eradicated.

I want to know how you do that, because Corbyn WILL have to find funds. His source?

Day6 I have some respect for real Conservatives who openly admit that they believe in a small state economy where the government does not interfere in the economy and the richest prosper and the poorest survive as best they can. It may be a point of view I disagree with but at least it is based in reality. The people I struggle with are those who seem to think that this government has not steadily eroded the standard of living of the poorest in our society by cutting benefits, allowing zero hours contracts to masquerade as real jobs and effectively cutting the pay of millions by imposing a pay cap. At the same time they have allowed the rich to evade taxes and amass wealth.
As for what will make it work. Proper wages for proper jobs for a start. There are companies making millions keeping people on zero hours contract because it increases their profits. People with proper jobs will pay tax.
It is possible to close tax loopholes. It is possible to legislate for fair rents. It is possible to invest in public works (It was actually done in the 1920 and 30s). It is possible to build a society where the weakest and poorest are cared for. But it takes the will to do so. As for how it will be paid for. Read the Labour Manifesto. www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Images/manifesto-2017/Labour%20Manifesto%202017.pdf
Even if I itemised everything you wouldn't accept the figures.
As I said before if we are comparing the UK to India we have sunk very low.

Interesting article here, trisher, about foodbanks in the North East. Apparently the reason Labour didn't tell anyone about them is because there weren't any until the Tories came to power.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/jacob-rees-mogg-claims-labour-13621441

The last line said it all dj when the Foodbank people tried to talk to him he wasn't available for comment. In other words he doesn't want to know.

Unavaiable for comment at this time as he realises he's gone too far?
However, he'll say it again when he needs to!

I'd be surprised if there were any in his part of the country when Labour was in power.

Anyone who has seen the food bank scene in "I, Daniel Blake" (fictional, but considered to be very realistic) will know how harrowing and unforgettable is the sight of an impoverished, starving, mother visiting a food bank for the first time.

Most of the cinema was in tears during this scene. Nobody would visit a food bank if they weren't in great need.

You mean you didn't find it "uplifting" to see the generosity of the British public mostly? But maybe that's the problem Foodbanks in the abstract as perceived by JRM-uplifting. Foodbanks in reality-reduce people to tears.

Newcastle West End foodbank is the biggest one in the country, isn't it? It wasn't there before May 2010. That was the one in I, Daniel Blake, wasn't it?

Trisher isn't a jobcentre near you closed down because the landlord hadn't paid the rent?

Day6 your sensible and measured and informed posts on foodbanks are the best I have ever read.
Sadly the posters who are none of those things on here are the ones wearing the blinkers.

So we aspire to be a country like India? Personally I would prefer not to see people starving in the street. Still I suppose if you like that sort of thing.
Did you read the link? No don't be silly that's about someone who really works in a Foodbank. It's much better to theorise about them

What a very silly post trisher I think you are losing the plot.

You praised Day 6 lemongrove who had compared our use of food banks to that of India, as you did so I assumed you were in favour of us being like India. It isn't silly just the ultimate outcome of the policies you seem to espouse.

Of course she hasn't, trisher. That would show her that Rees-Mogg and Day6 are wrong.

Is durhamjen your little echo trisher ?
People starving in the streets here? Once posters start typing nonsense I can't be bothered reading more of their posts.