Why so much surprise over Corbyn calling for Labour to Abstain?

maizie I lthink that what Labour is doing is setting out its ideal.

This will be the starting point in negotiations.

So Starmer is indicating that too much movement from these points will be unacceptable.

Quite frankly too much movement from these points will be disastrous

Of course smoke and mirrors may well be employed.

You say what you want and see how much the other 27 countries will let you have after you have deserted them.
Better than saying no deal.

Anyone got any idea what the Tories want?

Do the Tories know what they want?

That's not important, whitewave. Much better to attack Corbyn.

Yes but they are the government they should know what they are doing.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much from this shower.

No. They hide behind attacks on Corbyn just as much as some on here.
They don't want to think about the harm the government is doing.

'Turning to this place, this building is intimidating. It reeks of the establishment and of power; its systems are confusing—some may say archaic—and it was built at a time when my class and my sex would have been denied a place within it because we were deemed unworthy. I believe that the intimidating nature of this place is not accidental. The clothes, the language, and the obsession with hierarchies, control and domination are symbolic of the system at large. But the most frustrating thing has been to sit opposite those people who tell me that things are better, and that suffering has lessened for my constituents. I would like them to come and tell the people who have been sanctioned that things are better. I would like them to tell that to the teacher in my constituency who was recently made redundant. I would like them to talk to the 16,500 people in County Durham in receipt of food parcels. I would like them to talk to the nurses, the junior doctors and the firefighters—come and tell them that years of austerity have improved their practice or their profession.'

From my new MPs speech.

Yes I watched that - good speech.

On the Labour amendment.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/30/chuka-umunna-single-market-amendment-brexit-split-labour-party

I expect your new MP will soon get used to Parliament and Westminster ways, they all do after a while, no doubt it's daunting, especially to younger new MP's.
They are relaxing rules on tie wearing for men, so that's a start....at least they don't have to wear wigs!
Tradition and regalia does have a part to play though, and most seem to enjoy it all.

Are you always quite so condescending to the young rose?

The young I know would take a very dim view of your attitude.

Of course she is. However, my new young MP has probably done more work in her young life than roses has in all her years, definitely more for the unrepresented, charities and mental health.
The point is, roses, there is no need for parliament to stay the same, in the image of old fogeys like your MP.

Oh, do give over ww ...... I have just been reading an article about how daunting it is to new MP's ( of all ages) but if you are younger and not used to anything that could be described as 'elite' then doubly so.

You can't help yourself can you * rose*? Just re-read what you have posted

How on earth do you know what work I have done durham you and ww are simply jumping on the bandwagon , would your comments have been the same to a left winger pal of yours on here, hmmmm? You are both so obvious.

I bet she read it in the Times.

You could both start an argument in an empty room. And probably do!

My left winger pals wouldn't be so crass, roses, as to say that taking rent from someone who has had her home burnt down is just a little thing, can easily be remedied, etc.
They wouldn't condescend to young MPs.

You know very well durham that I was responding to your MP's view of the Parliament building and customs.

Yes rose and very condescending they were too.

In your ( and no doubt your pals) opinion ww

By the way, her speech was picked up in lots of newspapers. She sounds an extremely caring person.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40373395

This is her talking about rented housing.

So you ignored my MP's views on foodbanks and poverty in the same paragraph? Like the MPs sitting opposite.
What a surprise.

Frances O'Grady got a brilliant reception - get rid of zero hours contracts and low pay.
76% want council workers etc., to get a pay rise, including 68% of Tory voters.

Police have just been warned that Corbyn is on his way, with thousands more coming with him.

John McDonnell speaking now, about the rich and the bankers forcing austerity on the poor. A million and a quarter going to food banks last year.
Austerity has created the worst crisis since the second world war.

Even the BBC is saying it is a huge demonstration! That's a first