Remainders &Leavers

tegan if that were true I would be skeletal!!

Depressingly I don't think those people who are passionate about Brexit do not have the same experiences of those who worked with Europeans or lived in Europe. They just believed what they wanted to hear. Now they are angry because it was all lies and nobody likes to be made a fool of. Even worse are those who told the lies as they are nowhere to be seen or heard. They are probably laughing all the way to the bank as they have gained in monetary terms or high ranking jobs because they surely did profit by getting us to leave the EU. It will be a sad day when we leave all for the sake of 52% of the people had their say so we are reminded frequently by politicians. Whereas in reality it was NOT 52% of the population but 52% of the people that voted. It is so easy to manipulate the figures and truth with our wonderful language especially if you repeat a word or phrase enough times people will think it is true.

My sister-in-law voted remain along with her two student sons. She has given up saying we should just accept Brexit. Granted my statement "Anyone who voted Brexit is racist" might have been OTT but I think it was 80% true and we should not give up when we think Brexit is so very wrong.

Our Vet is a charning German lady who is has been here for 10 year plus she says the Germans are incensed about Brexit and can't understand it. She is thinking of going back to Germany which would be a shame.

I read in the "I" yesterday that 72 pro-brexit MPs had written to the BBC complaining that the BBC was biased against Brexit. What a cheek! The BBC really does its utmost to be balanced and objective. If that appears anti Brexit then so be it.

I voted remain but was really in the minority with my friends and family. However, I did look into the pros and cons and most of the people who live around me who voted out, seemed to think that the week after the result, we'd be out and anybody not "born and bred" here would be out too. I found this attitude quite upsetting as firstly I work for the NHS so a lot of our staff come from abroad and secondly I live in a town which is fairly poor but a lot of its regeneration has been paid for by EU regeneration grants.

It's people like that I don't really understand. There's a video of John Harris (of the Guardian) interviewing somebody in South Wales. The interviewee stated he was voting Leave because the EU never did anything for people like him. He was sitting in front of one of those massive blue billboards announcing that regeneration was being funded by the EU, but the irony escaped him.

There are parts of the UK which are the most deprived in Europe and they've been receiving massive amounts of EU funding. The EU was responsible for redistribution of wealth. Lets hope the UK government honours commitments. I must admit I'm not holding my breath - unless you happen to have 10 MPs able to prop up the government .

Sorry everybody - I pressed "return" too soon! What I was going to say was that I don't think people knew what they were voting for and in all the excitement I think people just saw the amount we give to the EU and not the various amounts given to us by the EU, like farming and fishing subsidies, grants and the jobs etc created by the Horizon2020 science funding programme for Science City York where loads of research is carried out. I have to stop myself thinking about it sometimes as I find it a bit upsetting and think people didn't realise how detrimental it can be to us with regards to things like employment legislation (particularly pay and holidays)if we don't have the EU to fight our corner or enforce our rights! The whole prospect is quite scary but maybe I'll eat my words and everything will be rosy once we're out..... :-/

I just despair at how much it is all costing, plus the cost of the referendum itself and teh recent election. This is all money that could have been better spent on things we actually need. The worse things look the more bloody minded the politicians get.

But wasn't the Vote Leave argument that it was 'our' money that the EU was returning to the deprived regions and that even after that was accounted for the EU still kept a large (ish) chunk of our contribution?

They argued that it could be given straight to the areas in need rather than by way of the EU. The cynics among us felt that pigs were more likely to fly past...

Indeed! And that's if the pigs didn't sh*t on the areas which have been receiving EU funding.

We're beginning to find how much losing financial services and the European Medicines Agency will cost the economy...and that's before the Japan/EU free trade deal (Sunderland, are you listening?) and the devaluation of the pound.

No problem! We can have a trade deal with the US, which means that our food will be cr*p and the NHS will be controlled by American health care businesses. Great! How long before we becme the 51 st state? So how exactly are we taking back control?

Ah well! This was all Project Fear! Errrmmm... All seems a bit like Project We Told You So!

AS one of GNs regulars I could not vote as I live in Germany permanently. I always liked Europe since I first went to Italy and was glad to get out of Sheffield to go to South Germany with my German husband.

With Brexit It was the biggest mistake not to want experts on board. Even today I heard about Germany being sorry when they can't sell as many cars. Does no one know that although the sleek outsides of the BMWs, Audis and Mercedes are German the insides of these cars are manufactured partly by Uk firms.

Let us all hope that common sense will prevail and Brexit will not happen.

We were discussing this forum today at out local guild and it turns out that nearly every person in the hall about 20
(average age 60 years),had family members connected in one way or another with Europe, either through marriage or work and they are all worried about the brexit outcome they did not vote for. After seeing TM so brazenly flirting with DT at the G20 summit made me physically sick. She is so desperate to keep her position and Brexit that she has lost the plot and her manners. It really does seem that the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Not much hope then for all our families as we standby helplessly whilst US, China,India and the rest asset strip this nation and leave it bear. The brain drain has already begun and it will not be long before large companies withdrawn in order to keep their profits.

I happen to volunteer at National Trust property and most of my fellow volunteers are retired professional people. Aside from one of us we all voted REMAIN. The one who voted LEAVE has never said why but he is applying for an Irish passport. That aside it seems clear that many LEAVE voters did come from poor areas which benefited from EU funding, farming areas again which also benefited. A lot of LEAVE voters did seem have voted against their own self interest so you have ask yourself why?

The answer has to be a combination of many factors. Racism certainly is a factor though they would nearly all say they are not racist. Harking back to the days of empire when Britain was Great; the Empire became the Commonwealth which now trades within their own geographical regions. Lies told by pro leave media and a woeful lack of political understanding.

The result is an awful mess and a more divided society than ever. Both Tory and Labour parties have been usurped by extremist factions leaving the majority of the population left in the middle waiting for the to hit the fan; and no way back to sanity.

I type "four stars" hitting the fan to avoid profanity but Gransnet took the Starts out!!!

More typos sorry. Oh for an edit option!

What a bloody mess and worse still we have Liam Fox as our MP. All our friends voted for out and yet they spend their retirement with their motor homes in Europe and are now moaning about the cost of everything at home and abroad. I just wish this was all a bad dream but it's not, my only hope is that it won't happen. We gain nothing and will end up costing us more.

We have taken our motohome to Europe twice since the referendum.
The Germans, Dutch, scandinavians are very friendly and of course always want to discuss brexit.
I would say there were more people who understood why we want to leave than those who don't.
Couldn't get an impression of what the French think as they never mix.

The French think we are totally nuts! They are surprised and sad as they have always considered the British voice at the EU debates as being the stabilising one - so are very surprised about the whole thing. They are watching it carefully.

Nick Cohen

Senior civil servants are sounding as "weary as Cassandra" over the hard Tory rights inability to understand that we cannot leave the single market and retain its benefits.

It is embarrassing now to go back and look at what the foreign secretary said on Brexit, but not nearly so embarrassing as being a citizen of a country where Johnson is the foreign secretary.

The Brexit campaign was built on racism and outright lies, (as we are all too unfortunately beginning to find out) .

We are heading for a smashup in ways that the majority of the British public do not begin to understand.

To leave the ECJ will mean that British tourists involved in accidents in Europe, British companies with branches on the continent, British men and women who exes fail yo meet child access or divorce agreements and British innovators who want to protect their trade mark and intellectual property.
All have rights that ultimately depend on the ECJ being the court if final appeal.

Soon no one will know where they stand.

I voted Remain (along with 66% of my local constituents) and still feel very strongly that Brexit will ruin the country. Brexiters still cannot give any clear reason why they want out and some are still being rude to Remainers saying "you lost, get over it". I just can't accept it and it does worry me what our future will be like.

It is not just our future Moira but that of our children and grandchildren.

We all seem to be in agreement in that remaining was and still is the best option as I have not heard anyone admit they voted to leave yet. We even admit we don't understand why those of our generation voted to leave. We can make excuses for them, like, racism, poverty, or ignorance but the truth is they were misled and lied too, the real question is WHY? In all my years on this planet I have learnt no matter what is thrown at me I can not change the ways of mankind. People with the power will fight to get it and fight to keep it no matter what or who they hurt. Money is the main factor, so one must ask oneself, who is
to gain by us leaving the EU? Certainly not the common man or woman whether in Europe or the UK, So who and what do they gain?

Since the referendum both LEAVE and REMAIN voters have had time to reflect ; overall understanding has certainly moved on. Of course there are faults in the EU as many in France, Holland, Italy and even Germany recognize. It may be wishful thinking but a lot more people of influence are really questioning Brexit and saying that parliament may well call the whole thing off.

I have always felt that nearly of the UK faults are more attributable to issues within the UK rather than those coming form the EU. Things are changing in the right direction. Manufacturing is being regarded as more important, education geared more to the needs of the workplace. The prospect of PR replacing FPTP is even looking more likely.

As Freya says I would like both LEAVE and REMAIN voters to say why they voted that and if they have since changed their minds. My reasons for voting REMAIN were simply because isolated outside the EU the UK would be much poorer; as part of it we have influence.

A Hard Brexit looks less and less likely and a soft one is staying in the EU with no influence and that makes no sense either.

Ok, here goes. I am one who voted to leave, but as the OP asks, si cétait à refaire, I think I would now be voting differently.

lillie what a courageous decision!! I just wish our politicians had your spine.

I voted Remain in the first referendum in the 70s and again this time. It looked likely originally that the EU would develop from the trading agreement to a more complex alliance and since then the UK has had a voice in the laws and changes and indeed the UK has formed many of the laws. A great majority of the rules and regulations have been for the benefit of the populations and so I voted Remain again.

We live in France and the EU means that we have the same rights etc as we have in UK.

One of the main reasons for the original joining together was to stop the wars which had ravaged Europe for many years happening again - so far that bit of the plan is working well and long may it continue!