Momentum are getting stronger

Oh, sorry, gg, I thought this was a conversation.

?

Can you say more about the nature of JRM's connections to the Traditional Britain Group, please, * eloethan*. I haven't managed to ascertain it from what you've said already. Please note, I am not challenging the information you've given; I'm asking for more specifics.

What did your last servant die of Baggs. Do what eloethan did and look it up yourself.

Agreed, rar. He was still a dope not to make sure his mic was off and to say what he said in the car as it drove away, but it wasn't all that terrible. And we all say stupid things that we regret and are sorry for later. What happened to forgiveness?

I've just listened to the conversation between Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy. I think her comments about East European immigrants do come over as a bit bigoted. Put it this way, if I or another gransnetter had said what she said we'd be totally in the Gransnet soup!!

I agree, I think he is a good person too, but he made a mistake ( human like everybody.......even 'evil' Tories.)

Just been looking up the "that bigoted woman" story. Seems Mrs Duffy has left the Labour Party because of Corbyn but bears no ill will towards Brown. Just saying.

I think Gordon Brown is a good man. Hopeless as PM but a good man. Sarah Brown is a good person too.

Can you say more about the nature of JRM's connections to the Traditional Britain Group, please, * eloethan*. I haven't managed to ascertain it from what you've said already. Please note, I am not challenging the information you've given; I'm asking for more specifics.

Is JRM a member of TBG, for instance, or does he just know/talk to some of the members?

A German friend of mine, who would be a perfectly acceptable person on all counts to you, eloeathan, I am certain, has also said that some of what Hitler did was good for Germany. She was not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jews but to things like sea wall building programmes and such like. I think that sort of thing is probably what is being referred to by Sudeley, not the horrific stuff.

More apologists for crass remarks made by someone who knows exactly what they are saying.

I guess he only wishes the mic hadn't been on

Baggs yes, spot on! Those on the outer edges of the political spectrum will alaways take things to extremes.

Eloethan I also would have nothing in common with anyone who said that Doreen Lawrence ( or anybody else for that matter) is a nobody.

However, in the heat of the moment and thinking it's a private conversation, people do say things they later wish that they hadn't done ( Gordon Brown....
'That bigoted woman' etc.)

eleothan good to throw light on people's actions.

Baggs I'm not talking about "politeness", I'm talking about actions. The act of voting in such a way as to always disadvantage ordinary people whilst always voting to the advantage of much better off people is, to my mind, far more important than impeccable manners.

I have nothing in common with the sort of people who call Doreen Lawrence "a nobody".

Thanks to whitewave I was alerted to Rees-Mogg's connections to the Traditional Britiain Group, of which I was either unaware or had forgotten.

If you want to get an idea of what sort of people RM associates with, here is a little bit of information I have gleaned:

Lord Sudeley - President of the Traditional Britain Group and former Chairman of the Monday Club which in 2001 was prevented from calling itself the Conservative Monday Club because the CP wanted to distance itself from its allegedly racist stance on immigration).

Lord Sudeley described Nelson Mandela as "a terrorist" and is also on record as saying "Hitler did well to get everyone back to work".

Gregory Lauder-Frost who, in an Independent article in 2013 headlined "The Tory Fringe Group Leader a Nazi Sympathiser". The article goes on to quote Lauder-Frost's remarks about Doreen Lawrence - "anti-English" and "a nobody" and his comment that non-Europeans living in the UK should offered "assisted voluntary repatriation".

TBG says:

it should "oppose the moral belief in egalitarianism"

"So-called conservatives who operate within the existing system utterly fail to achieve any substantial change".

"We must create a large local support networks and a professional national vanguard. We must create a new traditional conservative counter establishment– providing local support networks that will allow us to ruthlessly attack egalitarianism, and what it represents"

"We believe in the obligation of labour and the rolling back of the welfare state; in virtue and the sacred nature of Christianity and our Established Church; that our country is best served by our indigenous customs & traditions, its time-honoured hereditary principle and our monarch"

"We are against all the great heresies of our age, because we have yet to be convinced that there is any part of the world where the liberty to propagate suc heresies has been the cause of anything good." (???)

I would imagine that most people's political beliefs, and their values in general, are to a fair extent reflected in their behaviour.

Rees-Moggs certainly are. Be nice to the proletariat lest they chop off our money, privilege and maybe our heads.

Baggs hear hear!

I'd be surprised if most people of generally centrist political persuasions don't feel the same as I do about the people involved in politics. It's only as one gets to the both outer edges of the political spectrum that this seems to fall down and people are regarded as bad, or evil even, by the opposite side.

Equally critical things have been said or written (or drawn as in cartoons) of other political groups, and individuals, to those in the list you wrote down, eloethan. And quite right too.

I don't think there should be two separate personalities - one personal and one political. I would imagine that most people's political beliefs, and their values in general, are to a fair extent reflected in their behaviour.

I don't think a person's political beliefs are necessarily reflected in their behaviour on a personal level. I know people with political views much further to the left and the right than mine who are extremely polite and considerate in their behaviour to others. I don't know JRM personally but from what I have seen of him I suspect he is the same.

Perhaps the difference in our approaches and our judgements about JRM, eloethan, are based on our belief or otherwise that even Tories can, and I believe do in most cases, act on principle in political matters because they think, rightly or wrongly, that their political beliefs and actions are what will benefit the country as a whole in a better way than the beliefs and actions of their political opponents.

I do not think that someone having strongly held political or religious views that differ a lot from mine is a bad person. I might think their views wrong and I might wish they voted in different ways if they're an MP but I think it's only fair to give them the same respect as people as I would want them to give me were our positions reversed. Jo Cox put it best in her expressions of "more in common".

Rees Mogg has been flown in from 1927

I feared as much *eloethan"! A "Bon mot" is rarely left unused!

Yes Mawbroon - many have. Momentum: apparently a "bunch of bullies"; "mob rule"; "has taken over the Labour Party"; a "new name for the Militant Tendency"; "totalitarian regime", etc. etc. This morphed into comments about Corbyn "the country most admired grandfather (for some)"; "hiding behind a Father Christmas mask". Then, of course, the inevitable: McDonnell, unions, anti-semitism, economic incompetence, etc. etc.

So the thread, like most others, did drift from the original post and led to people pointing out that the darling of the Conservative Party who is receiving much media attention at the moment is Rees-Mogg. His olde worlde "charm" is often the focus of reports about him and it seemed fairly reasonable to examine his voting record in relation to his lifestyle and his view of what makes Britain great.

I really haven't got the time to trawl through all 211 posts (so far) but I assume at least one person has commented on gaining momentum?
<groan>
Over and out.

The only thing I appreciate about Rees-Mogg is that he is unashamedly in favour of a 'small state' with lower taxation and less state support in other words a true high Tory. He doesn't pretend to be the caring supportive Tory so many do nowadays.
If you are interested in Wentworth- his family home, once the seat of the Fitzwilliams read Black Diamonds by Catherine Bailey, the story of the house, the family and coal.