Should MP be sacked for using " n "word

Why am I thinking about Alf Garnett?

This conversation is beginning to feel like 'Back to the Seventies'..

Baggs if black people choose to use the word "Nigger" in any way they choose they have a perfect right to do so. It has in the past been used by white people to abuse and denigrate them, so historically however it is used by a white person is unacceptable. Most black people would tell you this and if even one of them is offended by it, it is unacceptable. As for the fine definition of the use of the word you claim I don't suppose someone who is likely to use the word as a term of abuse would see any difference. She used the word, she's an MP, someone of standing, then why shouldn't they?

The "outrage brigade"? Perhaps you are not outraged because you have no imagination and so it doesn't affect you. I'm glad there are people who find this use of language unacceptable, whether it personally affects them or not.

Apart from the sheer crassness of using the word nigger, the phrase "nigger in the woodpile" carries with it a terrible historical period of brutality and inhumanity and treats the hunting down and torture of terrified black slaves with derision.

Some black people feel that by using the word amongst themselves they have taken the power of it away. They have experienced the same sorts of overt and subtle discrimination and use the word in a sort of ironic way. (In the same way, gay people sometimes refer to themselves and address one another as "queer".)

Other black people disagree, thinking that the word is just too toxic to be spoken, and that the irony may be lost on some white people who will claim they are being unfairly victimised and discriminated against. My view is that white people who use this argument generally tolerate low level racism anyway and will always try and find excuses for ignorant behaviour.

My newly elected MP is (I believe) the first female Conservative of African heritage. This is her statement:

"I was shocked and appalled to hear the comments made by Anne-Marie Morris. No one should use that sort of language, let alone an MP. I spoke to the Chief Whip about it as soon as I heard to express my dismay, and I am pleased that decisive action has been taken. Anne-Marie's remarks are an embarrassment to me as a black woman and to the Conservative party. They are not in any way reflective or representative of our values and everything we stand for."

Well said (as ever) Eloethan. I agree with you.

You are just being absolutely ridiculous Baggs, either to be provocative or because you just don't understand the issues. Either way, you are not worth arguing with -yes, I am 'outraged' - with you

I think she simply used the expression to illustrate the point she was making.I don't think she intended any racist insult. The word was in common use when I was a child, after all, it is simply a form of the word 'negro'. It is like the word 'Pakistani'...its shortened form is considered an insult. I don't understand why. We are referred to as 'Brits', a shortened form of Britons.

Rigby...... are you sure this isn't faux outrage?

I give up.

? Is your head sore eloethan from banging it against that brick wall?

iam, I do understand that argument and I accept it as reasonable. I'm still not completely comfortable with it. This doesn't mean I would use the term nigger myself except to talk about its use by others, as on this thread. I think the difference between my attitude to Morris's use and that of most other people is that I think she made a stupid mistake and is sorry for it. I also don't think she meant to be abusive or racist so I can move on from the incident without being enraged on my own or anyone else's behalf. People are forgiven far worse sayings and actions that they genuinely regret and which they never consciously meant as offensive.

for far worse...

Even if Morris was subconsciously racist somewhere deep in her psyche before this incident, I bet she isn't now. Or, even if she is (which I don't believe), I bet she'll be hyper careful from now on not to let it show.

Who is more virtuous, a mild racist who realises their attitude is unacceptable to most of society and who is careful not to let their racism show, or a person who is not in the least racist and so doesn't have to make an effort?

rigby, of course I'm making provocative arguments. I'm not ashamed of looking at issues from awkward angles and trying to express them for the sake of my own clarity of thought.

Just in case it has not been already mentioned, before the election last month Morris had to distance herself from the comment made by her partner Roger Kendrick, who acted as her electoral agent. During a debate about funding in schools, Mr Kendrick said the crisis in education was due entirely to non-British born immigrants and their high birth rates’.

This article sums up the situation for me

Seriously?

Interesting, wkf. Thank you for that.

Seems I looked at the story without any prior knowledge of or prejudices about Anne Marie Morris. I'm pleased about that because it shows I was judging a situation not a person.

I still feel the same about the word nigger or any other word. Context always matters. I get the argument about the phrase used by Morris being used of a political situation about which people don't seem to be talking much (though it would all be speculation anyhow but that's another issue). Other people, including Bush, don't think it is suitable as a political metaphor so don't get it. I get that too.

RosieLeah, is your post meant to be ironic, or a joke?
Calling people from Britain 'brits' is nothing like using the words paki or nigger. Britain colonised India, also no with large chunks of the world. paki, lead me nigger, is only ever used in abusive, derogatory terms. That is not the case with Brits.

Whilst at university part if what I read at the time was known as third world politics, included in this was the way colonialism ensured the continuation of holding total political power, wealth and of course earlier - slavery. One of the ways was the use of language when addressing or talking about slaves, indentured Labour or exploited Labour.

Most of the racial terms we use stem from that era, in Africa, India and the Caribbean.

It was always used in a perjoritve sense and always racist in order to prove white European superiority.

Those who continue to use those terms either do so out of ignorance or malice, there is no other excuse.

They were racist then they are racist now.

I'm going to say it again because some posters are clearly missing the point - this is about far more than the n word ( although that's bad enough) it's the whole phrase and what it is associated with - FFS and as for comparing it to 'Brits' well ....

Sorry I'm posting incorrect language like 'lead me nigger'. My lap top died, I'm using an iPad and will try harder to read before posting ?

Surely this is old news now. Apologies were made. Lessons learned, the world has moved on. Some of you on here seem to want to perpetuate the issue for their own political agenda. Move on.

Baggs as far as I'm concerned it's a word with such negative connotations it should be allowed to disappear from the English language. Even in the black community its usage is not widely considered acceptable. Actually, I don't think use of the offensive phrase means Morris is racist. I do think it is completely unacceptable though. That said, I don't know what the answer is if she's considered a good local MP.

Good post, wkf.

Darns we'll carry on discussing it if we want , don't tell those of us who don't want to, to stop. Who do you think you are? She had not made a proper apology WTF does ' for any offence caused' mean? - there was offence cause. I'd like to hear her say WHY it's a racist bloody awful phrase to use - I don't think for one moment she's learned anything that actually means she understands why it was totally unacceptable. I think comments like yours say a great deal about your attitudes to racist language and none of it is complimentary. So no, won't move on if I don't want to.

If you don't want to discuss it, leave the thread

And yes I have a political agenda - it's called being anti-racist - sorry you don't think that matters Darns