I Will Deal With It

Deserving and undeserving poor, eh? Very Tory.

Oh for goodness sake dj what a load of tosh. How many tories do you know? Because I know plenty who support charitable institutions and want those in genuine need to receive all they are entitled too and deserve.

I don't however know any tories who are anti semitic, and would want to be a member of a party that has members who are.

Our values are about supporting the poor, the homeless and those out of work. Those who support the Tories do not do that, they penalise them, even inwork families, millions of children who live in poverty. Nothing for Tories to be proud of.

That's probably why I am fairly sceptical about most of them GG - looking on with horror at many of the right, left and centre.

Why is that dj? Are the values of the people you know not of a very high standard, or are you once again implying that you, as someone who doesn't support the Tories, has the moral high ground which of course you don't.

If you're referring to values held by labour supporters, you might like to take a look at the post I've just put on the momentum thread. I hope these aren't the values you're referring too of the people you know.

A good post GG.

I think it would be very difficult for anyone who supported the Tories to have the same values as people I know.

I think what many people want to know (most are probably a little less obsessed with the minutiae than those of us on the politics threads) is the direction of travel of a political party.

Listening to an interview in an area where a huge percentage voted for Trump one of his supporters was asked what would happen if he did not bring coal back to his area. He replied that his did not necessarily expect him to do that as long as he brought jobs. Trump had very clearly promised to 'bring back coal' but the majority who voted for him didn't care; they believed in his promise to bring them something other than the rust belt they live in.

I think you would also find that those who are inclined to look at trivial detail never do this with the people they support (for whom excuses can always be found) but only of those they wish to attack.

Precisely Elegran

How about people who have the same values but dfferent views on how to implement them sustainably?

Oh dear, I won't trawl through the threads - but it doesn't make other people's views and values wrong.

I don't vote Green like my DD but I think some Gransnetters did at one point and just because I don't vote for them doesn't mean I don't share some of their values and think they are important.

Politics for many at the moment is rather like Woolies Pick 'n' Mix which makes it very difficult come voting time.

"I don't live in a bubble, either on FB or in RL, although I do know some on GN have stated that they are glad that none of their family or friends think differently to them politically as they would find that a struggle."

I can't recall anyone saying they would find it a struggle.
I am just pleased that we all have the same values.

It is going to take the Lib Dems a long time to dig themselves out of that particular pit I think.

Clegg's desire for power seems to have been their undoing.

I think that Cable was backing up Clegg at that time nightowl but I take your point.

To be fair to Cable and the Lib Dems, getting rid of tuition fees was their own pledge for their manifesto, they were not alone in power, but sharing ( being the much smaller party in government) with the Conservatives.
I think at that point the pledge could never have been kept in any case.

That's true rosesarered but what I found hard to stomach was the way so many of them, including Vince Cable then voted for a rise in tuition fees. Only a very few had the decency to vote against, or at least abstain in line with their principles and manifesto.

I have been out, come home and thought I had killed this thread!

Thank goodness someone has posted

Absolutely Jalima my family are divided on lots of things ( friends too) but we never fall out about it ( and the world doesn't stop spinning.)

I don't live in a bubble, either on FB or in RL, although I do know some on GN have stated that they are glad that none of their family or friends think differently to them politically as they would find that a struggle.
Perhaps being a moderate helps, sitting on the fence sometimes can give a good view.

Ps just for balance another FB friend supports Jeremy C so I see posts supporting him too.

And DD is a Green

I never ever post anything remotely political on FB GG - but a friend lives in Jacob R-M's constituency I think and must belong to a group which supports him, so posts keep appearing on my FB page.

I could be on the wrong thread MaizieD, who knows, they all morph into one

I have a feeling that is why some people find having their views challenged on GN so difficult.

Agree with you on this gg

Corbyn may not have said he would get rid of student debt but he implied he would and some of his team of MPs said Labour would.

To be fair to Cable and the Lib Dems, getting rid of tuition fees was their own pledge for their manifesto, they were not alone in power, but sharing ( being the much smaller party in government) with the Conservatives.
I think at that point the pledge could never have been kept in any case.

Time that everybody found others opinions interesting, even if they don't go along with their views, comments may stay more civil that way.

It is a consequence of the first one roses - you can't really just agree with the last one but at least it seems you are meeting me half-way for once.

I agree with your last sentence GGM2