Gransnet forums

News & politics

Venezuela

(110 Posts)
Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 11:02:09

What is happening in this country , little on the news yet people are being shot

grannysue05 Fri 28-Jul-17 11:05:33

something to do with politics/elections and people simply not having enough to eat despite the country's oil riches.
A very familiar story and so sad.

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 11:21:25

Thank you, I saw a photograph of some dead people lying in the street , I thought it a wealthy country, all that oil.

TerriBull Fri 28-Jul-17 12:37:05

Venezuela is a failed state brought to it's knees by extreme socialism whereby the government, as well as seeking to control the oil revenue, have also tried to control all business and free enterprise. When I last read about it had the world's worst economic growth, one of the worst rates of inflation, worst infant mortality rates coupled with high unemployment and high murder rates. It's a gangster state thought to be one of the most dangerous places in South America. Public money disappears, it seems to have descended into complete chaos as a result of a brutal socialist governmet that leave many starving, not those in power of course, who as always are shielded from the harsh realities of everyday life endured by the rest of the population.

Venezuela embraced Marxism back in the late '90s, before that it was one of the most prosperous countries in Latin America.

I saw a programme about Venezuela a few months ago and many of the children are now emaciated. It was heartbreaking to watch.
Still Jeremy Corbyn and Ken Livingstone before him seem to think it's some sort of socialist utopia sad

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 13:52:42

youtu.be/VSIQAKpaR20

Terri, after grannysue replied to my question I looked up news of Venezuela and found the above

MaizieD Fri 28-Jul-17 14:22:45

From what I've read it is less that socialism has destroyed the economy as inept implementation and corruption. But it all depends on how right wing your source is.

I know that the UK is not comparable with Venezuela in the extremity of their difficulties but we could equally ask why does the 6th richest economy in the world have nearly a quarter of its employed workers on subsistence wages and increasing need for food banks. And high levels of personal debt. It's not down to 'socialism' in the UK.

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 18:32:52

So it isn't true one hundred have been shot since April , all right wing lies by the beeb?

petra Fri 28-Jul-17 18:53:00

annie
I don't know if you can stil get it but there have been 2 good reports from channel 4 news, one being last night.
It is truly awful what is happening out there.
The violence by the military is horrendous.
What do all socialist/ communist states have in common, mmmm, let me think?
MaizeD
Could you tell of a happy, prosperous, thriving 'socialist' country

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 19:05:33

Thank you Petra, what I have heard sounds truely awful , will see if I can find C4 news reports

Primrose65 Fri 28-Jul-17 19:30:13

Reuters have some reports
www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-idUSKBN1AC1S9

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 19:42:13

Thank you primrose.Reuters is Not what I consider right wing source or C4 news.

Corbyn and Abbot have gone very quiet about Venezuela being utopia

Ilovecheese Fri 28-Jul-17 20:03:25

Ah now I see why this thread was started

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 20:41:01

It was started because a man who wants to be the next P.M. Of this country and his shadow Home Secretary and shadow chancellor hold Venezuela as an example of all that is good , worrying

Jalima1108 Fri 28-Jul-17 20:50:30

I know that the UK is not comparable with Venezuela in the extremity of their difficulties

Difficulties is an under-statement.
And no, the UK and Venezuela are not remotely comparable under any of the governments we have had, Labour or Tory.

MaizieD Fri 28-Jul-17 22:31:12

I wasn't comparing them, Jalima. I clearly stated that. I was just pointing out that it was possible for a country to be nominally rich, and not socialist, and still have citizens suffering hardship.

Now I see where this thread is going I'm bowing out.

petra Fri 28-Jul-17 22:52:45

MaizieD
It's probably just a coincidence then that a relatively rich country went tits up after the despot that was Hugo Chavez took over with his United Socialist Party of Venezuela.

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 22:59:34

This thread is about Venezuela, the fact that Corbyn & Co praised the way the country is run cannot be ignored , well by the corbynites it will be thus making it slips off the bottom, same old

Jalima1108 Fri 28-Jul-17 23:13:13

Apparently this has happened due to 'an acute crisis of capitalism' according to a Venezuelan lecturer writing in the Socialist Worker.
She does not live there, she lives in America.

Eloethan Fri 28-Jul-17 23:40:18

There are other views with regard to what is happening in Venezuela, and what has been happening over many years. In 2014 this opinion piece appeared in the Guardian:

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1239006-Venezuela

For those who prefer not to read links, here are some extracts:

US support for regime change in Venezuela is a mistake
by Mark Weisbrot
The US push to topple the Venezuelan government of Nicolas Maduro once again pits Washington against South America

"When is it considered legitimate to try and overthrow a democratically-elected government? In Washington, the answer has always been simple: when the US government says it is. Not surprisingly, that's not the way Latin American governments generally see it.

"On Sunday, the Mercosur governments (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Venezuela) released a statement on the past week's demonstrations in Venezuela. They described "the recent violent acts" in Venezuela as "attempts to destabilize the democratic order". They made it abundantly clear where they stood.

Of course we all know who the US government supports in Venezuela. They don't really try to hide it: there's $5m in the 2014 US federal budget for funding opposition activities inside Venezuela, and this is almost certainly the tip of the iceberg – adding to the hundreds of millions of dollars of overt support over the past 15 years.

"Although the past year or so has been rough, the past 11 years – since the government got control over the oil industry – have brought large gains in living standards to the majority of Venezuelans who were previously marginalized and excluded.

"It took a long time for the opposition to accept the results of democratic elections in Venezuela. They tried a military coup, backed by the US in 2002; when that failed they tried to topple the government with an oil strike. They lost an attempt to recall the president in 2004 and cried foul; then they boycotted National Assembly elections for no reason the following year. The failed attempt to de-legitimize last April's presidential election was a return to this dark but not-so-distant past. It remains to be seen how far they will go this time to win by other means what they have not been able to win at the ballot box, and how long they will have Washington's support for regime change in Venezuela."

This is certainly not the first instance of governments being de-stabilised if, under a socialist administration, they attempt to take control of their own oil resources.

Eloethan Fri 28-Jul-17 23:42:38

Apologies: wrong link:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/18/venezuela-protests-us-support-regime-change-mistake

Primrose65 Sat 29-Jul-17 00:03:50

There may be something in the US story, you can never tell where and how they intervene really until years afterwards. Ironically, the opposition guy mentioned in the Guardian article was arrested the day it was published.

Primrose65 Sat 29-Jul-17 11:14:25

This weeks edition of the Economist features a leader article and a briefing analysis of Venezuela. It's an interesting but very sad read.

petra Sun 30-Jul-17 08:34:02

annie
There is a programme about Venezuela on the BBC news channel tonight at 9.30.

Anniebach Sun 30-Jul-17 08:50:00

Thank you Petra,

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/29/observer-profile-nicolas-maduro-venezuela-hugo-chavez

durhamjen Fri 11-Aug-17 14:48:09

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/11/uk-criticised-over-sales-of-military-equipment-to-venezuela

Any thoughts on the Tory government selling military equipmemt to Venezuela?