Our country post Brexit

There are so many personal and family reasons for wanting or not wanting to relocate - even with the same country. For families schooling is often a big factor as well as the wishes and maybe career of a spouse.
Many EU citizens are looking for jobs within Europe already and there is some discussion as to which country is good to go to.

Most of the small airports in Europe have had to up their security and scan passports properly rather than give a cursory glance or just wave people through. It is a response to terrorism, not the EU being "nasty" to the poor Brits. It applies to all non Shengen countries , the UK has never been in Shengen.

This is the survey referred to by whitewave above.

It sounds very positive. I just worry that if they had worded the question differently (are you in favour of “The free movement of EU citizens who can live, work, study and do business anywhere in the EU” to wording such as "are you in favour of free immigration within the EU?") there might have been very different responses. Free movement sound a positive phrase but immigration has negative connotations to many people in the UK.
Also, the way it is worded sounds as if it affects UK citizens freedom to move around Europe (which of course it does!). UK still seems to be one of the least accepting countries of freedom of movement in the EU according to this survey.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-free-movement-support-brexit-british-people-leave-european-union-survey-a7872816.html

That's where my quote came from, mostlyharmless.

Free movement of people is what the EU is all about, the four freedoms.

Perhaps there needs to be continued debate about the pros and cons of freedom of movement. Do people in the UK understand the benefits?
I think the wording of the question in this survey is important.

Interesting article in the FT by Simon Kruper

I have posted a shortened version below.

"Brexit as an intellectual concept that may be considered a brilliant idea.
However it was sold on falsehoods and is now being entirely mismanaged.
David Davis sketched that Brexit would be dealt with by a quick visit to Berlin.
Hanson said "obviously the UK would never leave the single market"
Farage predicted that other countries would swiftly follow.
One year later no one can describe or agree on the kind of Brexit we want or when.
The result of three real and enduring flaws in the UK

1 Running the country on rhetoric

The Bre xit generation characterised by largely public school boys who are taught from young that it is their class prerogative to run the UK. They Cut their Brexit teeth in the Oxford union where Brussels was rejected in favour of the class prerogative.
The referendum was won on largely substance free hot air, with a cross class alliance if tabloid/privileged class - a scaremongering force unique to the UK.
Voters were misled. That is not to say that they were thick etc, but they lead busy lives, and when they read things like £360 million for the NHS they believe it.

Brexit is therefore like asking the winners of a debating society to engineer a spaceship.

They can't fool Brussels with rhetoric because Brussels is rightly run on rules.
The referendum skated over such boring stuff, so even cabinet ministers are surprised by things like the divorce bill etc.

The second and third are related

Delusions of grandeur and class insularity

The updated strategy of this class seems to be America first and Britain second.

They are praying that Trump will come good

Meanwhile this class ignores our real strengths such as the knowledge economy. All the clever folk (given the perjoritive title of "out if touch elites") are mere spectators at the Brexit slapstick.
As Orwell said

" we are a family with the wrong members in control"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizens-rights-universities-russell-group-theresa-may-oxford-cambridge-a7873761.html

Universities now telling Maybot what they want from Brexit.

I truly think that all these difficulties and the current impasse is as a result of the government misunderstanding of the implication of their cobbled together ideas. My god what I wouldn't give for experts right this minute.

First day posting so I will risk it, I voted leave to weaken the undemocratic, unnacountable power of the Eu institution. It has political influence but no political accountability. What decided me was the Eu support for the Ukrainian coup that brought a democratically elected government down and started a civil war in Ukraine.
The coup itself was fought by actual fascists, not Godwin law fascists but Hitler worshippers, and we, through the Eu supported this.
Since the ref I have become more convinced it was the right thing to do. The situation in Ireland 're the border ( not being able to determine their own border)is an example of lost liberty and sovereignty. It serves as an example of a bureaucracy being more powerful than democracy.
One already evident bonus is how British goods are becoming easier to export due to the reduced value of the pound. Additionally British goods, agricultural and manufactured are becoming cheaper in the shops compared to imported goods
When a bureaucracy becomes more important than elected parliaments we are in a dangerous situation, I wanted out.

No gilly shock the law was changed and tightened because of terrorism

So the reason for 4 hours waiting times in Palma airport (for example) is in order fro extra check to be carried out in a bid to prevent terrorists travelling from the UK to Majorca (on a Thomsons holiday flight perhaps) but terrorists wouldn't dream of trying to get from Spain, to Belgium, France or Germany would they?

But we voted not to be part of the Schengen agreement, which is about open borders within EU areas.

Cake and eating it again.
This should have been a warning to Brexiteers.

gillybob
terrorists wouldn't dream of trying to get from Spain, to Belgium France or Germany, would they
Either that was tongue in cheek or you have no idea what is going on.
Now that the Turkish route has more or less been cut off for terrorists they are now crossing the med. Have you not seen how many 'migrant' boats are landing in Spain?
And now that the Italian government is going to prosecute boats bringing in 'migrants' from Lybya with illegal immigration, they have to find another way, Spain being the closest landfall from North Africa.

Palma may have been highlighted but it is across the board at the borders of Schengen countries. After the terrorist attacks there were checks even within the Schengen area.

In which case, Welshwife, there is even less reason for us to be made a special case.

I don't think we have done - just papers trying to find a story.

Yes of course it is welshwife

It was a very obviously sarcasm petra I would have assumed you might have guessed that

My point being that you can hold a plane load of "Thomson tourists" up in Palma Majorca for 4 hours in order to carry out extra checks (incase one of them might be a terrorist) but allow all others to fly freely across Spain, Belgium, France, Germany etc.

Palma was highlighted because it actually happened.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-destroys-daily-mail-front-page-eu/

Gilly What makes you think it is not happening anywhere else? They are certainly doing many more checks at Bergerac than they used to - it used to be such a small airport that many of the officials knew the passengers by sight as they were frequent flyers ! It is still small now but bigger and better than it was and the number of flights and passengers has increased greatly.

What I also meant to say was that the countries you mention are all within the Schengen area so once they see the passport it is OK. I think they are only doing these checks on planes coming from non Schengen countries.

It is happening elsewhere Welshwife Where did I say it wasn't? I only used Palma as one example. But the extra checks appear to be only for passengers from the UK which prompted my comment about terrorists perhaps not travelling between Spain, Germany,France, Belgium etc.

Yes I know that Welshwife and I fully appreciate the need/want/necessity for extra checks, but how can they be sure that the passengers travelling within the Schengen area are perfectly decent, law abiding citizens without terrorist intentions? They can't can they.

I think they are only doing these checks on planes coming from non Schengen countries

My point exactly.

Of course they are! We are the ones who do not want to be part of the EU or the Schengen area.

Most terrorists are home grown anyway.

It's not going to get any better.
You should look at the James O'Brien link.