Our country post Brexit

I think it is absolutely true to say that the Leave campaign told lies and that many voters were led astray. This does not imply that most leave voters are stupid. I am sure that some who voted leave and some who decided not to vote made carefully considered decisions, but that does not change they fact that mahy leave voters were led astray and believed the lies- including the lie on the bus.

I struggle to imagine anything positive coming from this fiasco.

Even if brexit could be avoided or somehow ameliorated, the UK has been damaged and diminished and it will take a very long time to recover.

Please tell me I'm wrong and show me the route to those "sunny uplands"

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1609877829064443&id=100001267234809

It obviously depends which sites or groups etc you read as I have seen the most terrible abuse written to those who voted remain on many sites - far worse than anything from anyone on this site.

Thanks for that anya.

I absolutely agree that this wretched state of affairs has been extremely divisive in the UK. However various polls show that Brexit is certainly no longer the most important thing for the majority of voter, so perhaps things will slowly get better. Although I would argue that once the economy shows real strain as Brexit begins to take effect, as it already is Bre it will whizz to the top of concerns again as we are all fully aware, people do not like their pockets being affected.

What I find so alarming is how those preaching hate and division find it so easy to get a platform here like the media etc. Much of it is veiled but it is undoubtedly there. We see the result of this oxygen of publicity in the recorded rise of hate crimes.

It is a well known phenomena that identifying an enemy is a tool historically used by unscrupulous rulers. Divide and rule works!!

With regard to the argument over Brexit.

I truly believe that it is one of the worse decisions made by any government in living memory. I can see nothing but decline ahead as a result of this disastrous vote.

To ignore it and no longer argue against this dreadful result, would in my opinion abrogate the democratic process. We have no right to do this, so must continue to argue our case with every tool to hand.

Things will be and are said that are unpleasant. Whilst I abhor this I recognise that it comes from both sides - none are innocent, but at the same time, given the seriousness of the situation, it is inevitable.

The only English reports about Macron were in the Mail and Express - I then went on to Le Figaro.

Nobody seems at all aware of the damage this is doing to people's lives and mental well being. The UK has many EU nationals who have been living and working at much needed jobs for years suddenly finding that their personal lives are to be thrown into turmoil. There are so many families where their futures no longer have any clarity of status and they are unable to continue with their lives and buy houses or change jobs etc because of the uncertainty. Many of them are doing their best to get jobs back on mainland Europe before they have to leave or be divided as a family.
From the other side - UK citizens in Europe are also worried about the future - no one is coming out and really giving absolute assurances - since the decision from the British Govt as to what their fair terms are for people the EU stand has been modified and is no longer as goods it was and will affect UK people working on the continent for multinational companies.

At the end of all this it is the PEOPLE who matter - their lives and worries - and unfortunately it appears at the moment the powers that be do not seem to care about the effects the policies they are proposing will do to them.

The Independent is reporting that 70% of respondents support free movement anywhere in the EU.

It seems to me that as the dust settles and truth begins to emerge people are able to make reasoned responses. They are able to understand the arguments without the influence of rampant right wingers.

An idea of post Brexit difficulties is clearly showing in the queues at the airports. This will become normal for us Brits whilst the rest of Europe are able to carry on as before.

William Hague has stated that there is a "clear potential for Brexit to become the greatest occasion for economic, diplomatic and constitutional muddle in the history of the UK, with unknowable consequences for the country and government and the Brexit process itself.

Vernon Bogdanor a professor at Kings College says that a second referendum is getting more likely every day, as deadlock in parliament looms. It will have to be referred back to the people.

Let us hope that we are more informed this time. Particularly as to what a post Brexit Britain will look like as no one seems to know.

It is the same for all nationals of non Schengen countries I think - but at the moment there are many thousands of Brits going on holiday to Europe and maybe to smaller airports which cannot deal quite so fast with all the passports - mind you the last time i went into Chicago I had a long wait at Passport control and almost lost my connecting flight.

I believe that the current situation in the European (mainly holiday) airports is a deliberate attack on UK citizens. It is the EU putting us in our place and trying to show us who's boss.

I don't think so * Gilly* it always was like that and the ports etc were just lax about checking everyone. I think the terrorist attacks as well have not helped - we are near a small country airport - Bergerac - and for the last couple of years they have really upped the security as you enter the country. It used to be cursory glance but no longer so. It is to be hoped that after Brexit Schengen visas are available so people wishing to visit several countries can do so with the one visa - I know that 3rd country nationals have needed a visa for each country up till now. Some people need sponsors within the country they wish to visit as well as a visa.

No gilly the law was changed and tightened because of terrorism. It came in in April and the summer hols are causing blockages. We aren't in the Schengen area so it will affect us. Those within the Schengen area continue to travel freely, but the borders are being tightened and rightly so. It is for everyone's security.

Isn't that what Brexiters wanted, to have control of our borders?
Therefore why shouldn't EU countries want the same?
Cake and eat it springs to mind.

True dj but the polls are showing that the UK population has changed its mind and now want freedom of movement.

Perhaps if the government took any notice of the people it would improve things.
This summer's chaos at airports is just the start of the Brexit chaos.

Did you post that bit about how much it is going to cost the UK for moving the Medicines agency dj? £520 million apparently plus all the expertise and jobs.

Coates in the Times is wondering if Hammond has given away the Falklands yet.

The Tories would sell our souls to the devil if it suited them.

I saw a report this morning that I assume it was Gove has told Denmark that their fishermen will still have access to British waters.

whitewave
Yes that is the cost. But what a humiliation to the eu that 75% of the staff ( including scientists) dont want to relocate.
I always assumed that scientists were clever educated people, but now we know they want to stay with the 'sinking ship'

Well I think that argument is a little disengenuous. 99% scientists want to stay in the EU, that includes my son and daughter. The Sun gleefully reported that the scientists working for the Medicines Agency want to stay in the UK. That is because most of them are British and have their roots here. But don't confuse the two.

Yes, I did, whitewave.
The problem is that although they will have to move, because it's EU not UK, we will still have to pay for the building they were in for I can't remeber how many years, as there was no get out clause.

This is interesting. If it's true, why are we leaving?
" A majority of the British public support the free movement of citizens to live, work, study and do business anywhere in the EU, according to a new survey mapping public opinion across Europe.

It comes after a spokesman for Theresa May confirmed earlier this week that free movement would end when Britain formally leaves the EU in March 2019 – the deadline set for the conclusion of Brexit talks.

But the barometer of public opinion – commissioned by the EU Commission – appears to contradict the commonly held view that British people are not in favour of free movement.

[The EU Commission’s ‘Spring 2017 – Standard Eurobarometer’ data] also claimed that despite the UK voting to leave the bloc at the referendum last year, an increasing majority – 56 per cent – of people in the EU were optimistic about its future. The most significant increase in optimism came from French respondents with 55 per cent now optimistic about the bloc’s future – an 11 per cent increase on the same survey in the autumn of 2016.

But among British respondents, optimism was much lower on 39 per cent while just 20 per cent believed the British economy would improve in the coming year."

80% do not believe the British economy will improve over the coming year.