A divided society-what can be done?

I have come rather late to this thread but I have to agree with lovecheese

There is nothing more conducive to a divided society than religous apartthied in schools.

All children should be educated together. Inclusive education is the only way to foster understanding, tolerance and friendship.

Support the Accord Coalition which campaigns for inclusive ecutaion.

I am with you there varian All schools should be good secular schools. Of course huge numbers already are but I think dividing children by faith is not healthy.

There have been more anti-racist marches/gatherings in Newcastle than there have been racist with many many more people turning out. Newcastle does not have a huge immigrant population it is just an easy target for outsiders (the last one was a German far right group) to play upon the hopelessness and poverty that many suffer in the North East. Perhaps governments should be looking at the North, Southdivision of wealth and prosperity, as to why some young people are easy targets for far right groups, but that will never happen.

I agree about all schools being non religious. But I don't see this in itself to be too much of a problem in Newcastle.

One way to stop division in society is to legislate to reduce the wealth gap. There will always be rich and poor but in the countries where societal structure minimises the extremes there is less unrest.

Was this march in Newcastle against Jewish, Anglican, RC. or organised by people of these faiths?

I'm not sure which march you are referring to Anniebach ?

Perhaps march wasn't correct, the crowd/demo trisher referred to in the O/P Gilly

Going back to the wages, one problem is that some companies only offer jobs for say, 30 hours then the employee tops up with pension credit. Even on full time on a minumum wage it can sometimes be legitimately claimed. (This is more of a benefits issue). Also some of them make deductions for vans, tools, uniform etc. Immigrants, especially if illegal, have less choice of job and work off the record for small sweatshop type companies (run by compatriots) that pay cash and don't declare them. Health and safety and minimum wage may go out of the window.

Newcastle is a lovely city, but perhaps getting too big and crowded, unfortunately it is easy to wind up a crowd to be hostile, and quite scary that it can happen overnight.

I think part of the problem is lack of personal socialising - we don't get to know people as we did in the old days when we did not have any screens as a substitute for meeting and talking with neighbours and friends,

Perhaps what we are experiencing is what some of the commonwealth populations felt felt when Europeans arrived en masse and took over.

I don't recognise this time when everyone mixed socially, there has always been divides , now we think the answer is we all mix socially , it has never been so.

From report:

In 2015 Newcastle was chosen as the first city in the UK for a march by German far-right anti-Islam group Pegida while last year pro-Nazi group, National Action, tried to drum up support on Tyneside unfurling “refugees not welcome” and “Hitler was right” banners.

On both occasions the far right groups were met by protest groups and anti-racism campaigners have come out in opposition to every EDL march ever held in the city.

Newcastle is a lovely city, but perhaps getting too big and crowded

Absolutely agree that it is a lovely city starbird but it certainly isn't overcrowded.

It is 6th on the list of the largest cities in the UK (in order of sq mtrs London, Greater Manchester, Leeds, Swansea, Sheffield, Newcastle) but 18th on the list of highest population (259,000 approx) with only a fraction of the population of London (approx 7.2 million).

Newcastle's population was much higher in the past and had been dropping steadily until the early 2000s, it has now stabilised and is slowly increasing.

If poverty and deprivation are factors in the development of racism would the money best be spent on improving the lives of the poorest? Perhaps some investment in youth activities might help young people.

I agree with you, Penstemmon, about reducing the wealth gap.
The heads of the FTSE 100 companies are paid 160 times the average full time wage. I don't see how that can possibly be justified.

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/03/ftse-100-chiefs-earn-160-times-the-average-wage-study-reveals

Improving the lives of the poorest people in society should be a given trisher and I also agree with penstemmon about closing the gap between the richest and poorest in society but I think the people attracted to these far right groups are going to be very hard to help. We are talking about people with a massive axe to grind against society. They probably don't have a job or at least a very poor one . Giving them an extra £ or 2 an hour won't change them. They are looking for something or someone to blame for their hopeless situation. They have it into their head that "foreigners" are coming into the UK and taking what is rightfully theirs. A well paid job, a comer shop, a job in a hospital, a house on a council estate, a girlfriend , an appointment at the GP, benefits, the list is endless. Instead of devoting their energies into trying to improve their "lot" they rage against those they seek to blame.

Indeed gillybob and are encouraged to do so by some irresponsible media headlines. They believe myths about immigration etc. Partly because they want to and partly because their education levels are poor so they do not have the ability to read beyond the basics, to analyse or research. Good broad education is important. We have narrowed it down too much and sidelined subjects that interest a wider number of students so school /education does not appeal or offer a way out of poverty.

I just cannot agree with this - blame their actions on poverty, the media etc, there has always been far right groups and far left groups, racists, Blaming it on poverty etc is making excuses for them really . Did poverty cause racism in the Met?

The education system often annoys me. It still concentrates so heavily on academic subjects encouraging all children to work hard at Maths English etc. and leaving those children who are in no way academic behind (far too soon) . Even apprenticeships (once the go to of those less academic but more practical) are aimed at those with the best exam passes. I don't think you can even get into Nissan as an apprentice on the line without GCE passes in the usual subjects. Back in the day many less academic people would have followed their fathers into the mines or the shipyards. Okay not ideal but at least giving a young man a sense of pride and the ability to earn and hold their head up in society, but those jobs for the masses are long gone. Should we feel surprised that the are young people just waiting for something to cling to? Something to belong to?
The do gooders often don't have a clue they think if they throw a bit of money in to setting up a pathetic scheme up it will solve these problems.

I am not blaming racism (as a whole) on poverty Anniebach I am saying those with an axe to grind against society, those living miserable hopeless lives are easy targets for far right groups. Who encourage them to believe that "foreigners" are taking what was rightfully theirs.

I might have to duck here - I completely agree with your analysis of the problem, gillybob, and I wonder whether bringing back national service might be useful? - provided, of course, it was used to train boys in some sort of basic skills that would/would have to be recognised and of use afterwards; hopefully along the way they might feel some pride in themselves?

No need to duck devongirl it's good that we can have a sensible, interesting discussion. I agree that some kind of national service could be the answer.

It is now used as an explanation Gilly for many , we have to accept not everyone wants to live in harmony with all races and creeds. We excuse the far right yet even in this forum sympathise with anyone who complains that travellers have camped in their area

Oh I do agree that many people have no desire to mix/socialise with people of different colours/creeds, religions etc. to be honest I can't see a problem with this as long as we all live and let live. There is a world of difference between not wanting to socialise with someone because they have different interests, values, religious back ground to you and being intolerant of a group of travelers hell bent on creating havoc to the local community.

So would this "National service" be only for poor young people? Whichever way it was implemented there would be a huge outcry I think, from the middle class if they had to do it and from the poorest if they were the only people involved.

I wonder if the rise of the right could also be linked to the lack of extremism from the left? At one time the poor could target their anger at the rich and he aristocracy and were led by people who argued vehemently for the redistribution of wealth. Radical MPs like Aneurin Bevan and Manny Shinwell were hugely popular. There is nothing like them now so perhaps the right is the only option and people of other races are an easy target

Let them eat potatoes. A long but interesting read about how the poor have been treated over the centuries.

theconversation.com/how-the-humble-potato-fuelled-the-rise-of-liberal-capitalism-80767