A divided society-what can be done?

Could we not have a better apprenticeship scheme, rather than National Service?

I agree with most posts on here, although they are different! Faith schools are at the root of a lot of the problems I feel, children should be going to the same primary school as others on their street, not an Islamic/Jewish/Catholic or whatever establishment, if children grow up together and play together they will assimilate better. But, I also agree that there has never been a golden age when we were all gathered together, holding hands, and singing folk songs. Thankfully, the more blatant racism of 'no blacks, no irish' on rental properties is no longer permitted. But, to be concerned about a huge area of your home town being inhabited by only one group or nationality be they Roma or Muslim or Lithuanian does not make you a racist, David Blunkett spoke out about the concerns of his constituents on this very matter. It is easy for me to state that I am not racist, but my children went to a school where all of the other pupils spoke English well whether as their first or second language, we are a mixed community with no ghettos of poor, overworked migrants labour who could be accused of 'taking our jobs', I may well feel different if my DD walked down the street to crude comments from migrant young men, or if I felt cut off when everyone else in the local shop spoke something other than English. I think what I am trying to say, clumsily perhaps, is that it is easy to condemn, but perhaps harder to understand why people behave as they do.

Oh dear I Could not support any kind of national service aimed only at the young and poor. I'm not sure how a new NS could or would work but it would have to apply to everyone. A few years ago I did some voluntary work with the community police on the outskirts of a large city. It was apparent that in the particular area in which we worked there were 4th generation people who had never worked. Could national service work for someone in their 40's, 50's or 60's ? I'm not sure.

Posted too soon as meant to add. These were some of the very people who raged at society, raged at homeowners, raged at the police, raged at anyone of a different colour or religion.

Newcastle has the biggest foodbank in the country. Was that the foodbank that was trashed earlier this year?

Well fed people create more stable communities, and perform better in school.

www.globalcitizen.org/en/issue/food-hunger/

Why should children of a faith have their schools closed ? Why not Jewish, Anglican, RC. Muslim ,Quaker etc be left as they are and add atheists schools.

Faith schools divide society.

Nobody wants to stop children from having faith. We just want people to be less divided and in childhood is the best place to start.

Because, in my opinion Anniebach faiths schools are divisive, I have not issue at all with children being taught their parent's faith, my school was in a very Jewish area and the Jewish children went to Shul on Saturday mornings to learn about their religion. Having atheist schools would mean parents imposing their faith or lack of it, on their children. By having non faith based education and then individual tuition in the Quran or Quaker philosophy or Judaism or whatever, we then give children the means of learning about their parental faith without isolating them from each other. To be blunt, if segregating children on religious grounds at a very early age wasn't so succesful in keeping them 'within the faith' then the religions wouldn't do it! Many on here have testified how despite no longer practising the Catholic faith for example, they still have this deep ingrained guilt.

Another problem I feel, apart from religious schools, is the schools themselves. To put it bluntly and crudely ( and there are schools here doing it), they are still educating children to be factory fodder but there are no longer the factories. Blunt I know, but when you have generations who have always got a job in the shipyard/mines/car factory or whatever, it takes a sharp change in schools philosophy to get this message across.

I taught in a CofE primary school - it was the most popular in the area and when it came to Christmas etc any children of other faiths were always wanted to take part in whatever and their parents came to see everyone and loved it. The schools are not overtly religious at all but have a Christian ethos and celebrate some Christian festivals.
My GC went to a CofE secondary school which was grossly oversubscribed by families of all faith and the children were well representative not only of the local area but also further afield. There are a proportion of families which go to church, and a proportion from the local etc so it was always a good mix.
Religion is not rammed down their throats at all and the parents just liked the ethos of the schools and the results were good too. They felt the children were more tolerant and caring of each other.

Am I right in thinking that C of E state schools typically date back to early in the last century or before then, and whether voluntary aided or voluntary controlled have been absorbed into the modern state system?

Doesn't this place them in a different category from faith schools set up specifically to cater for children of a specific faith, rather than for children of the parish? If so, any legislation to deal with the perceived problem of faith schools need to be carefully drafted.

But then our laws are always carefully drafted.....

I agree that C of E schools don't seem to be overly religious, probably for the reason put forward by grumpa. They are different to other faith schools.

Yes, you are right Grumppa. I am a governer of our local Church in Wales school. It was first set up by the Anglican Church because there was no school in the parish . Children of different faiths and no faiths are pupils, yes we celebrate Easter and Christmas , the parish priest visits but not to preach , it gives him an opportunity to talk to the children and so a chance to know if the child has needs,

Why should this school be closed down Gill?

Don't see why any church/faith based school should have the same funding as straight state schools. As I grew up I was aware of RC schools and the influence of the priest/ diocese over them but it wasn't until I worked for the old ILEA that I discovered voluntary aided schools.
That are no Church of Scotland schools.

All state schools should have an age appropriate religous and moral education curriculum. This is different from religous instruction in one belief system. The place for that is in the home, church, temple, mosque, synagogue etc.

The so-called "faith schools" which are maintained at taxpayers expense should either continue as private schools or be absorbed into an inclusive state education system if we want to foster social cohesiveness.

accordcoalition.org.uk/2017/07/28/large-majority-think-good-schools-should-be-mixed-environments/

So Varian, faith must be limited to the buildings you list ?

Yes - they are totally absorbed into the state system and at one time had filled a gap in local schooling. They usually do have slightly different feel but they teach exactly the same things as any other state school except maybe have more assemblies.
I also did long term supply teaching in a Catholic school - again just the normal curriculum with Sats etc and had little overt religion. - they occasionally went to a simple service in the local church but that was only special occasions etc. Children of various faiths attended the school.

My daughter went to a Catholic PS for Year 6 and loved it, said it was her best school year. Despite that, I think it's better for children to mix irrespective of faith at that stage. I love the TV ad at present where children say what the difference is between them and a friend, and differences like colour are never mentioned - it should be like that with faith too IMO

GillT57 you said Another problem I feel, apart from religious schools, is the schools themselves. To put it bluntly and crudely ( and there are schools here doing it), they are still educating children to be factory fodder but there are no longer the factories. Blunt I know, but when you have generations who have always got a job in the shipyard/mines/car factory or whatever, it takes a sharp change in schools philosophy to get this message across.
On the contrary many church schools have extremely high aspirations for their pupils and have very high SATs scores, particularly at primary level. It is one of the reasons they are seen as desirable by parents of other faiths. Most of the faith schools do have a different ethos and Catholic schools have very high levels of discipline. That said I think the proposed legislation that they will be permitted to admit 100% of pupils of the religion they represent is very wrong. The present situation with children of other faiths being admitted if there are spaces is much better. And I do think that all religions should be expected to finance faith schools, if they wish to keep them.

Annie no-one is restricting the belief systems of parents, but schools should be places for education, not religous or political indoctrination. Children should learn to think for themselves and given the knowledge and freedom to make their own choices.

There are many good aspects to religion but advice such as "do unto others as you would be done by" are not exclusive to any faith.

Varian, faith is rather more than - do as you would be done by.

To put it bluntly and crudely ( and there are schools here doing it), they are still educating children to be factory fodder

Can you explain what you mean by this, trisher? I constantly come across this as a criticism of state schools but I really don't know what they are doing to justify it. They teach the same national curriculum and the pupils sit the same tests at faith and non faith schools. What is different?

Faith can mean all sorts of things, but children are entitled to understand that they may chose for themselves whether they believe in any religion. It should not be imposed on them, and certainly not in a state school.

Rabbi Dr Jonathon Romain, chairman of the Accord coalition is a man of faith, but wants his children educated alongside children whose families have other religions or none. Many religous people support secular integrated schooling.

MaizieD best ask GillT57 it was her comment if you read my post I am disagreeing with it.

Varian,that is the view of one Jew, it is not the view of this Christian