The Truth Behind Traingate

So often I see on GN "You are lying when you say. . . .. " when the most that could be said is "You may think that is so but you are wrong . . . ."

To lie you have to believe one thing but say another. Lying is a deliberate misrepresentation of what you know or believe to be the truth with the intention of making someone believe it, though you have evidence that it is true.

Lying is saying "I didn't do that" when you did, or"I saw him do that" when you didn't". It is not "The CCTV showed it so I believe it, and anyway I think he is capable of it"

Believing that something is so when at the time you don't have evidence which appears later is not lying. You can say that it is a mistaken belief, even that it is thrawn or gullible or downright silly of the person to believe that, but not that they are lying.

And you may be wrong Jen

It took the ICO until last month to say that Virgin had not broken the rules on Data Protection to release this photo.

If you look at it, you will see that every seat has a reserved ticket on it.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/12/virgin-trains-did-not-break-data-laws-with-corbyn-cctv-release

Can you imagine what would have been in the papers the next day if Corbyn's party of five had sat in seats reserved by others?

Elegran, Annie knows what she says about Corbyn and traingate is deliberate lying by now. I am sure you do as well, but are not prepared to admit it.

For instance, if you state that Jesus Christ was a vegetarian because someone with the same name was a member of a contemporary religious group who did not eat meat, but I don't see any proof that it was the same Jesus, then I might say that you could well be mistaken on the evidence that is available, but I wouldn't accuse you of lying.

I have seen people accused of lying when they have just come to a different conclusion to someone.

I truely believe Corbyn lied about not having a seat on the train and do not see anything in this latest tape - a year old- to change my mind, I would have no problem in saying I was mistaken but I was and am not mistaken , I believed he lied , not that the train wasn't crowded but he had to sit on the floor because there was not one seat for him,

But it is not LYING! You can call it failing to accept the truth if you like, but that is not lying! Lying is an active statement.

If Annie can say that Jesus was the son of God, I can say that he was a vegetarian. We have equal proof.

ok, I do not believe Corbyn was telling the true facts

Even though there is proof that he was now, and lots of others say he was telling the truth?
You do realise that it's not just Corbyn you are calling a liar, don't you?

I am willing to wait for proof those who support the no seats claim are not members of momentum

Neither you are lying about the vegetarianism nor Annie is lying about the seat. A liar INVENTS a false story or bears false witness. Anyone believing or not believing the story is not the liar.

This is not anything to do with what Corbyn did or didn't do or whether the CCTV footage was genuine, suppressed or doctored. It is about the misuse of the accusation of lying, which I have seen in the past on Gransnet forums, and is one of the reasons why I criticise the regular posters on political topics. It is overkill and abusive.

"ok, I do not believe Corbyn was telling the true facts"

but you do not know Annie. For months you have been talking as if you did but that was never the case. Your opinion was based on what were always very shaky facts so more of a prejudice than a truth.

But not a lie!!!

i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/160823-Corbyn-train-Keren-Harrison.jpg

How often has Annie called Corbyn a liar about it?
Annie now knows differently, but is still not prepared to accept the truth.

Sorry, will not read voxpox links

Some people believe him.

Annie always says she will not read voxpolitical links.
The man is a journalist, just like Jon Snow. However, he had to give up journalism full time to look after his disabled girlfriend.
Not that she's prejudiced, of course.

By the way, Annie, I don't put links on for you because you never read my links. I put them on for open-minded people.

We do have the freedom to believe or disbelieve whatever the hell we like without being hounded to change our minds by the thought police.

Owen Jones.

Yes indeed.

Not a lie? Probably not Elegran but possibly libellous in the was it was put forward as an undeniable truth.

Some are rather too fond of playground insults.

Harry Leslie Smith.

screenshots.firefox.com/xU17EN3zJBs3OxC6/twitter.com

Haven't noticed an apology from LBC, either.