The Truth Behind Traingate

But the overcrowded trains are not hypothetical Chewbacca. Only your idea of a debate is and it's become a total waste of time.

But it's been fun GGMK2!

No, it hasn't really. Just a distraction from some work I am doing. It just leaves me despairing of my generation and how selfish they seem to be.

GGMK2 if you're daft enough to pay for a seat reservation on a train and then let someone else sit in it, whilst you stand up, go right ahead. If it makes you feel that you're the bigger person or more righteous and socially minded; I'm fine with that too. I think you'd be nuts to do it but it's your choice

GracesGran
dispairing of my generation and how selfish they seem to be
So you agree that it's wrong for old people to sit in reserved seats.

?

Chewbacca I am really not interested in who pays for a reserved seat. You always bring it back down to yourself. I am more interested in everyone who has paid a fairly hefty amount for a ticket getting a seat with or without reservation of a particular one.

Actually, Chewbacca, you don't pay extra for a seat reservation, so I don't know why you insist that you do. All you do is pay for the ticket, not the seat reservation.

All the more reason why there are no excuses for not having the seat reserved then!

Don't you get that most people using the trains are not little old pensioners with all the day to idle away. They are business people who do not want to reserve a seat as they don't know which train they will catch.

Especially if you travel with Virgin East Coast. If you reserve a seat and it's not available, you get your money back.

Tosh! Business people who use the trains to commute to cities, usually, but not exclusively, travel at peak times. I don't know of any businessman/woman who doesn't value their time sufficiently to prebook the train they intend to travel on so that they can secure a seat and work whilst they're travelling to their meeting. Most businesses hold an account with a train company so that their tickets can be pre booked, online, from wherever they are.

I've worked for companies where they use a travel management service. There's a whole set of expenditure benchmarks companies use now for things like rail travel. First thing that gets cut is a flexible ticket - they even know if it's worth buying employees a Railcard to reduce the spend.

Only if a train guard comes along, which didn't happen.

On the way back we had a Transpennine train. Much better, and the guard was there. No standing, apart from the railway worker who wanted to stand near the door.
Unfortunately the government has taken money from Transpennine and given it to London trains.

A couple of surveys and reports:-

www.transportfocus.org.uk/research-publications/publications/national-rail-passenger-survey-nrps-spring-2017-main-report/

orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/statistical-releases

And a report to the House of Commons report on the THE IMPACT OF 1ST CLASS ON CROWDING ON UK TRAINS

One way to reduce the impact would be to abolish 1st class altogether. Another is also suggested in the report:-

"12. Carriage Conversion

One way to deal with the issue of crowding would be for train operating companies to convert at least one of their first class carriages to standard class on every full train set. In the case of Virgin’s Pendolino sets, for example, this would increase total standard class seats by at least 62 seats and reduce first class seating capacity by at most 46 seats. If current average utilisation rates in first and standard class are assumed to be 35% and 65% respectively, first class occupancy would increase to 51% whilst standard class would drop to 54%—assuming no passenger switches class. In other words, first class, which is inherently more comfortable than standard class, would remain less crowded than standard class. If two carriages were converted, the occupancy levels would become c85% and c45% respectively. This suggests that at peak times first class would reach capacity—although this could be readily “managed” by reducing the number of “discounted” first class tickets sold."

They could also, of course, just temporarily relabel the 1st class carriages as standard during rush hours, thus freeing up ALL the seats in them to the standard class passengers.

I don't know of any businessman/woman who doesn't value their time sufficiently to prebook the train they intend to travel on so that they can secure a seat and work whilst they're travelling to their meeting.

I am so sorry you have such a small circle of friends. Not everyone traveling by train is going to 'a meeting' some (many?) are actually going to carry out a job and those booking their journey are aware that, if the job is finished they will want to get home. Many meetings are now carried out on-line although I am aware that those working for the Government as civil servants or their equivalents have not yet caught up.

Prepared 5th January 2013.
Virgin haven't taken any notice of it, have they?

gg we frequently had telephone conferences, both with British civil servants and EU civil servants working with common aims.

Sorry whitewave, that was an old and no doubt out of date sore from the days when I worked for a Quango and understood the CEOs idea of expenses. Too personal

That's OK cheer up look at the Brexit movement!! It has cheered me considerably this morning.

The election and I think people contacting their MP has made a huge difference. The pressure must be kept up!!

So Labour is now beginning to reflect its supporters.
63% voted to leave, no doubt they will be all heartened to read this mornings papers.

For some reason the Great British Public and particularly the older members really like to see others in difficulties and enjoy looking down on those who are travelling without reservations and having to sit on the floor or stand. It makes them feel superior and they enjoy that.
Unfortunately this enables the train operators to make larger profits and makes the journey less comfortable and less efficient. If everyone complained about the overcrowding on trains, stopped blaming the passengers and targeted the train companies instead, pointing out that safety may be compromised and that moving about the train was difficult would be a start. But it seems some people on GN would prefer to blame the individual and accept an inadequate service.

First-class carriages have already been scrapped on some commuter routes into London and some didn't have them in the first place. I usually think of business people using a train to get to their place of work as a 'commuter', so perhaps that explains the confusion.
Would it be better to operate like the TGV in France, where if there are no seats available, you simply can't get on the train? I don't think so.