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The Archbishop of Canterbury

(27 Posts)
varian Fri 08-Sep-17 15:53:07

The Archbishop of Canterbury is not only leader of the Church of England but as the CoE is established, he and other CoE bishops sit in the House of Lords and are therefore able to influence the law of the land.

I am personally in favour of disestablishing the CoE. I would prefer that we lived in a secular state where no religious group was treated preferentially.

However I was glad to see Archbishop Justin Welby (who had a distinguished career in finance before his ordination) speak out recently about the gross inequality in Britain.

The archbishop said: "Our economic model is broken. Britain stands at a watershed moment where we need to make fundamental choices about the sort of economy we need. We are failing those who will grow up into a world where the gap between the richest and poorest parts of the country is significant and destabilising."

Is it not appalling that we have sanctimonious politicians, proclaiming themselves to be Christians, who have presided over this treatment of their fellow citizens?

Anniebach Fri 08-Sep-17 17:24:39

I doubt 26 could have much influence over 800 members

Cindersdad Fri 08-Sep-17 17:35:36

The Bishops are free of party politics and can say what they feel is right. True 26 out of 800 is not very many but they are well respected and listened to.

I do agree that government should be secular but it should also have humanity and compassion.

Anniebach Fri 08-Sep-17 17:48:49

I agree Cindersdad . Seems the good done by christians is easily forgotten, William Wilberforce. Elizabeth Fry, Dr Barnardo , so many

lemongrove Fri 08-Sep-17 17:53:52

All ArchBishops dabble in politics and always have done,
As long as they are not unduly influencing the government of the day ( I don't mean merely trying to) then that's alright.

Eloethan Fri 08-Sep-17 19:24:39

Better late than never I suppose.

varian Fri 08-Sep-17 19:38:11

Some years ago a friend of mine, on election day, was on his way to the polling station when he met the local vicar. He told him that he couldn't decide how to vote, and the vicar said "you can't be a Christian and conservative"

I'm not sure what I think about this. Was the vicar right? Even if he was right, should he have said it?

mumofmadboys Fri 08-Sep-17 19:44:21

There are Christian Conservatives and Christian Socialists.

Anniebach Fri 08-Sep-17 19:57:48

If he believed it then yes he should say it. It wasn't in confession

Ilovecheese Fri 08-Sep-17 19:59:36

I thought the Church of England used to be called the Conservative Party at prayer

Anniebach Fri 08-Sep-17 20:04:07

Many believe Christ was the first socialist, his teachings have guided me to socialism but I know lovely people who are Christian and conservative, Christian and liberal, never met a UKIP priest.

We can't and in my opinion forget Dr Donald Soper, pacifist, Methodist preacher and socialist

Anniebach Fri 08-Sep-17 20:04:54

The Anglican Church is a mix

paddyann Fri 08-Sep-17 20:22:25

in the last century ministers and priests told their congregations WHO to vote for from the pulpit on a Sunday ,it wasn't unusual certainly in Ireland and in the West of Scotland ,and the political divide became a religious divide too,Catholics voted Labour ,protestants voted Conservative and Unionist.To some extent it still happens here with the Orange Order being the most vocal of Conservative voices the DUP are in NI ..same roots

lemongrove Fri 08-Sep-17 20:24:58

Not the same here in England though Paddyann and that may have been the case in Ireland and Scotland years ago, but now people are not subservient and will vote for who they choose.

mcem Fri 08-Sep-17 22:28:04

26 may not be many but why should they have any say at all in anything involving Scotland?
C of E is not the established church here.

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 08:44:12

The Church in Wales is disestablished and Wales is much more under the thumb of England than Scotland is , our Arch Bidhop doesn't sit in the lords

mcem Sat 09-Sep-17 09:17:16

Given that Wales also has devolved powers I wonder why issues like this haven't been pushed harder (think EVEL ). All about higher priorities I guess.
Mind you the fiasco of Brexit looks like an opportunity for Westminster to attempt to grab back some of those devolved powers.

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 09:48:58

Doesn't trouble me, I am glad the bishops do sit there , I am quite sure they will speak for all not just for English anglicans. They are part of the world wide Church

MaizieD Sat 09-Sep-17 10:04:37

I have every sympathy with the point of view of the vicar in your story, varian.

There may be wonderful individuals within the tory party who live by their christian principles but, as a whole, the Party itself has always seemed to me to be completely at odds with the second of Christ's commandments. 'Love thy neighbour as thyself...'

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 10:16:04

But this is not a Christian country, it just happens to have some Christians living here

varian Sat 09-Sep-17 11:23:33

If this is not a Christian country, and the very low levels of church attendance seem to show that, how can we justify giving preferential treatment to the CoE?

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 11:30:34

I expect that will change with a change on government . I never had a problem with Methodist Donald Soper speaking there, as a Christian I naturally want the Christian views put forward

varian Sat 09-Sep-17 15:40:09

Dr Soper was appointed to the House of Lords because he was regarded as a person who would make a valuable contribution to debates, which he certainly did. He did not get there automatically because he was a bishop in an established church.

mcem Sat 09-Sep-17 16:41:23

I'm not at all sure any Anglican bishop would speak for Scotland. The C of E is not a significant entity north of the border and I find these high church clerics totally alien.

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 17:11:21

Depends what you mean by speak for Scotland