Uber licence in London refused

The drivers are individually licensed so some may be able to get work elsewhere with mini cab companies. But this will only become necessary if Uber don't comply with TfL regulations and/or lose the appeal. Since Uber came on the scene, lots of local mini cab companies have gone under and that has resulted in many job losses but they aren't collated because each firm closing or contracting is an individual event. It's always the workers who pay the price of corporate failures - BHS another fairly recent example.

I'm genuinely concerned for the thousands of drivers who may lose their jobs, but outside of the largest U.K. cities, and especially London, does this hold any implications for those of us in the rest of the country? I have no idea how Uber works or even heard of them until comparatively recently. I mean this in no snide way at all - I just feel personally completely outside the furore.

holly100 my thoughts exactly.

Wonderful news, and that's all I have to say on the matter.

The latest figures I could find on Uber and tax.

Simon Bowers
Monday 10 October 2016 20.05 BST Last modified on Tuesday 21 February 2017 17.13 GMT

Uber’s main British business paid only £411,000 in tax last year while the commission fees from thousands of drivers in the UK disappeared into a controversial tax structure in the Netherlands.

The latest accounts for Uber London Ltd show the UK company’s turnover doubled to £23.3m last year, but all of this income was earned by providing unspecified “support” to other companies within the taxi-app group, and not from driver commissions.

After deducting expenses, this small subsidiary, which employs 105 staff, made a profit of £1.8m and paid tax of £411,000.

Meanwhile, accounts for the company’s international sales hub in the Netherlands reveal that commissions from drivers in London and scores of other cities around the world were booming in 2015, pushing revenues up to $520m (£420m).

This was more than seven times the figure for 2014. Passengers pay their fares directly to drivers, who automatically hand over a commission fee to Uber that ultimately appears in the group’s Dutch accounts.

Uber International BV is one of a handful of companies in the Netherlands that together form the core of the group’s complex tax planning arrangements, helping minimise its tax bills around the world.

Details about Uber’s aggressive tax planning come as the group separately fights claims that it is aggressively exploiting UK employment laws. The US corporation is being sued by a group of UK drivers who say they should be classified as employees of Uber, which would allow them to receive a range of benefits. A court judgment in the case is expected to be release this month.

Alex Cobham, research director at campaign group Tax Justice Network, said: “Uber’s UK accounts confirm the extent to which major multinationals are impervious to policymakers’ rhetoric, and willing to take full advantage of both the weaknesses of international tax rules and of the absence of transparency.”

our ex mayor had to resign as he was giving references for taxi drivers - some had been in prison for rape etc - and still council have not made it compulsory for DBS checks - daughter wont get in a taxi by herself -
They should all have to be thoroughly checked

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uber-london-ban-taxi-drivers-lose-job-risk-40000-gig-economy-ride-hailing-tfl-no-licence-a7961556.html

I am pleased Uber are having their licence withdrawn. Whilst I know that balck cabs are very expensive, what price safety?

I can't help wondering if many of their drivers even have the right to be in the UK and the whole operation IMHO means that the company pays no employers' NI and drivers can evade paying tax and NI.
They are under the radar for HMRC but no doubt benefit from free NHS services when they need them.
We have become a magnet for unscupulous working practices and taxpayers are subsidising Uber.
I wonder how much corporation tax they pay?

Surely all Uber have to do is produce documentation to show they have complied with the rules and regulations. If they are unable to do so then doesn't that vindicate TFL?

I am sure many people will be inconvenienced and will complain about it but I would rather know that the cab and driver I was using was properly registered and had complied with all the regulations which are there to protect me.

My understanding is that TfL do all the checks required of a driver before they are given a licence to drive a taxi, then they are taken on by companies like Uber.

Personally, I am devestated that Uber is not having their licence renewed as I rely on Uber to get me home after babysitting for my daughter, when it is always late.

I feel safe in an Uber cab as I know exactly where they are, when they will arrive, even the name and photo of the driver so I don't get in the wrong car and no money changes hands because it's paid on-line. What's not to like.

Regarding the sexual assault allegation, Uber held it's hands up to that and said they got their response wrong.

Don't stop Uber - help them to improve.

The black cab drivers will be ecstatic.

It's because it is cheap and easy grumpyoldbat. I instinctively dislike them. I don't like the way they park outside my house with their engine running because it is a permit area. But I understand why they are popular it's the technology. Not to have to fiddle around in purse and watch the clock and figure the tip is merciful...tfl should up its game and offer a similar platform. And elsewhere... catch up with Salt Lake City and stop making thousands of IT workers in this country unemployed by outsourcing to cheaper India. Start using their talents and then they won't end up being drivers for Uber.

I won't use Uber in Manchester. They flout the licensing system, their drivers are not properly regulated. They register their cabs in boroughs with cheap and lax licensing regimes, then come into Manchester and prowl the streets waiting for trade. Our local cabs with their expensive license with higher standards are losing trade. In addition, the behaviour of some Uber drivers, particularly regarding women travellers, is tarnishing the whole licensed cab trade.

Those petitioning and whining about the decision could try supporting their local minicab firms who Uber have been undermining.

I wish we had the power to stop Uber, but most of their cabs are not even licensed in Manchester, so there is nothing we can do. London is lucky to have the capacity to do it. Wait until Kent, Surrey etc licensed Uber cabs start appearing in London - nothing to stop them at the moment, legally. Don't understand the howls of protest - Uber do not deserve to be licensed when help up against the standard demanded of other mini cab companies, so they are treated like any other would be. Is the upset because they are a big corporate with a shiny mobile app? Is it because people are lazy and selfish and want their app? Or is it stupidity and the blind following of second-rate reporting in assorted media outlets?

There was a report about two hackney licenced drivers splitting their penalty points to avoid being banned from driving.
They had their licences revoked, reapplied through TfL, but were then found driving for Uber in Southend.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/criminals-dodge-council-ban-to-drive-for-uber-ntzqc73vn

Undecided on this ... is 25% too high a price to pay for online/feedback/money transactions that Uber offer its drivers? This unearned income to Uber in Salt Lake City is not quite unearned they have provided the technical nous that so many of us enjoy. The drivers should have to face as rigorous tests as other hire transport. It has just shifted the capital invested from hardware (e.g. Cars) to software.
Other companies will enter the market giving better assurances, as uber has the monopoly at the moment. Don't ask me how or what will become to thousands of drivers...perhaps they will organise and collectivise and the 25% could go to their own welfare. The struggle continues

They treat their drivers disgracefully. Right decision.

Didn't Rotherham Council revoke cab drivers licences because of their links with the abuse there?
What's the difference?

I guess nothing Uber does will satisfy Maryeliza54. I use my local minicab company. Have done for 20 years. On personal terms with the older drivers. Inquire about their health and their children as they do me. Returned my reading glasses last year when I left them behind. My daughter thinks I overtip. Not really. They just know me. Shop local I say. Always pays.

Hopefully someone might know but I thought part of the uber problem was the hundreds of thousands of individual uber driver permits tfl issued???

Fran,

We were hoping for a link to the stats on all assaults in all types on taxis.

Thanks.

The black cabs have been allowed to monopolise London for far too long. Yes Uber is far from perfect and they need safer practices and enhanced checks for their drivers. My adult children and I all use Uber. My daughter has to go into central London at least twice a week has not encountered any issues apart from when a black cab driver shouted at her! We have positive experiences of using Uber. In my experience all the drivers I have met have been polite, respectful and professional. It must be a very worrying and stressful time for them and their families at the moment. I hope Uber sort themselves out and look after their drivers properly. I for one would like to see them return to London. I wouldn't be able to afford a black cab. I'm living off my savings and waiting for my State pension (2019) just recently retired. Yes Uber are cheaper unless I won the lottery I certainly couldn't afford a black cab.

Read about the number of women abused in Uber taxis. We should all be grateful this is officially recognised and not ignored as it would have been in earlier years. Any 'inconvenience' to other individuals should be gratefully accepted while a government for once is working to protect our daughters and granddaughters.

Greyballing is absolutely an issue in areas where Uber isn't licenced to operate. However, it has been licenced in London since 2012, so I don't understand how geofencing is an issue.

More info about Uber greyballing www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secret-program-greyball-resignation-ed-baker

I imagine UBER will either pledge to change it's practices or close down and re-open under another name. It seems unlikely that they will win the appeal, at least in the first instance.

Doubtless Uber will continue its work behind the scenes to comply with the TfL regulations as they appeal this ruling.

Hopefully the appeal will reveal that TfL was evenhanded in its decision to inflict collective punishment on 40,000 Uber drivers.

In remaining a city of the future, London needs a safe and secure transportation system.