Let's not forget Brexit

It jolly well should be because at least 50% of the country is disenfranchised

This was it whitewave. It was to ensure a vote on whatever May come up with so perhaps to early for them to do it at the moment.

I should know this [hangs head in shame] but were EU nationals living and working in this country were allowed to vote? And, if so, how many people would that be whose future and jobs were on the line if leave won? Someone spoke on Saturday; a male nurse who had lived in this country for 20 and had a wife and children here. He said it would cast him £2,000 to get a British passport, which he couldn't afford but that all he'd ever wanted was to become a nurse and work in this country. It's people like that that I feel so sorry for, although I don't think this country deserves their loyalty.

20 years [my typos are getting worse!]...

Citizens from other European countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - did not get to vote on whether the UK remains part of the EU.

It's good to look back and make sure we do know the facts Tegan.

Yes; there are so many facts to remember and, when I'm out and about I do worry about not having the facts to hand [although, thankfully, I'm usually with people who do]. The man who spoke had me in tears; it was heartbreaking to hear how unwelcome he felt in a country that he had served for 20 years [and there are so many people like him].

Thanks for the Independent link [gg]

That was dated March with Rudd saying the government wouldn’t accept amendments. I think the decision won’t be theirs but parliament which s sovereign, and I suspect that they are beginning to understand that now as they have delayed the Bill in order to panic.

All the media is making quite a thing about the OECD report.
I am not convinced of a second referendum because I am not convinced listening to so many people who don’t seem to have a clue either for or against. I think it definately ought to be left to parliament where they stand most chance of understanding the issues, although listening to some of them you do wonder.

If there was a second referendum it would be very acrimonious and divisive. Red buses again? Farage would come out of the woodwork.

Could we bear to go through that again? Or should Parliament make the final decision based on the best outcome for the country?

Isn't that what we 'pay' them for. I agree that another referendum would make the country even more toxic than it is already [unless the voters were told in black and white exactly how the terms of leaving would affect them and were asked to vote on that, but that would depend on more honesty than seems possible, especially from the gutter press]. I knew very little about the EU prior to the referendum [and I'm sure most of the country were the same]. What I did come to believe was that it wasn't the simple process we were led to believe it would be and that countries weren't actually lining up to do trade deals with us. What I have been told since [even though I don't understand most of it] is how incredibly complicated trade deals are. Some done in dollars; some not etc etc.

I don't think there should ever have been a first referendum whitewave - or certainly not on the basis of a simple majority for such a huge decision so not that keen on a second. I agree it's parliaments job now and you are right Tegan that is certainly what we elect them for not to turn life upside down and make us poorer on the basis of a skewed popularity poll.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

That's my family, Tegan, my grandson and his mother most upset that people don't want them here.

Plus ça change (not getting any better, is it!?!)

It is appalling, dj that your family members, who were born in other EU countries feel this way.

But just as bad, there are British people, like members of my family, who are seriously thinking of emigrating to another EU country (where they don't even speak the language but their skills are in demand)- all because they want to protect their children's future as European citizens and have lost confidence in this country.

My grandson was born in York, varian, and he feels like that.

www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/81116/could-the-uk-reverse-brexit

Lots of links on here to say that Brexit could be reversed if people saw sense.

infacts.org/mays-transition-wont-quite-do-trick-even-if-she-gets-one/

What's the point in having a referendum if only one answer will be acceptable? Surely it would be a total waste of of time, effort and money and a completely pointless exercise! Why would anyone bother to vote in what would be a futile exercise? Bit like communist countries, toe the government line or nothing, or Henry Ford, you can have whatever colour car you like so long as its black.

there will be no second referendum - but there MUST be Parliamentary approval for the final deal (or no deal) and the country should have the right to vote on the final deal or no deal too.

If you're not prepared to accept a majority opinion, then you shouldn't ask people to vote in the first place.

The referendum was ill judged. People were asked to give a yes/no answer to a complicated question.

There should have been a safeguard requiring a minimum turnout and minimum majority before a long standing union could be threatened.

Public opinion is fickle and can be manipulated. That is bad enough when there is a general election, but these come round again in five years.

David Cameron will go down in history as a reckless gambler who created chaos because had to placate ghe nutters in the Tory party. The country will pay the price.

Oooooh. This is fun

With the right strategy a Britain that ditched Brexit this year could be running the EU - the world's largest economy - within 18 months.

tttthreads.com/thread/920357950350417920

It's roll up of this thread, if anyone wants to read the comments.

twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/920357950350417920

And here's a new analysis of the referendum voting data:

Brexit was a cry of financial pain and not the influence of the old

voxeu.org/article/brexit-cry-financial-pain-not-influence-old

nigglynellie- the majority opinion was accepted - which does not mean that there needs to be Parliamentary approval for the final deal, or no deal- once the facts, effects, consequences, etc, are known 2 totally separate issues.

I happen to believe the people should also have a vote on the final deal once above are known too. Again- this has nothing to do with not accepting the result of the referendum on the 'principle'.

You're certainly right varian! But it was what it was, and we are where we are. The referendum should never have been held, but you ask what people what they think and they will tell you, and it won't necessarily be what you want to hear, but whatever it is in any walk of life, you'll be stuck with it. If the wrong answer is so detrimental, then don't ask!
D.C., was completely reckless, arrogant and totally out of touch with ordinary people! Astonishingly there is a country full of people outside London and big business!, A fact perhaps he realises now its too late.

We are where we are!
Nobody knows where we are, least of all May, Davis or Boris.
They are still arguing amonst themselves even more than we do.
Most of us who want to get rid of Brexit are outside London, so I've no idea what you mean by that.