Let's not forget Brexit

Well said Day 6, totally agree with your post.
Yes walk away Mrs May and call their bluff.

As for all this talk about Corbyn becoming our next PM and stop Brexit in your dreams, there's not going to be another general election for nearly 5 years and lets not forget he lost by 30 seats.

Absolutely, call their bluff.

I don't think people are aware this is what the EU is demanding we pay to get out...just to get out!

I believe we have offered billions - 17 billion I believe at the last round of talks - which seems more than reasonable, just to get the divorce papers signed before we even begin any trade negotiations.

I was shocked!

Of course we wouldn't be paying any of this dosh if it wasn't for Brexit bigots , and that's just the half of it. Are we going to be told what it's costing in extra civil service bureaucracy, government time etc no of course we won't , we'll just blame the nasty EU. I can seee the Daily Heil headlines

I'll just leave this here:

tttthreads.com/thread/921068161692205057

Did you watch Question Time last night, Maizie?
The Reverend Richard said that if we have to go off a cliff, he'd rather we abseiled down instead of jumping as he doesn't want to be splattered at the bottom.
Jolyon's thread reminded me of that.

This thread is truly scary Maizie.

The brexiteers, who really should read it, probably won't. If they did it would be dismissed as "scaremongering" or we'd be told "no-one can forecast the future" and "anyway that chap looks suspiciously like an expert and the British people have had enough of experts".

A response to the letter that May put on facebook for the 3million.
The time line is interesting; she didn't want a response from any of the 3million before it was in the papers.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/axel-antoni/3million-eu-nationals_b_18317206.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

This account of May's trip to Europe is by Politico Europe. a neutral magazine commenting on European politics
(check it out on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politico_Europe)

Their headline is:

Theresa May pleads for Brexit deal we can ‘defend to our people’

www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-brexit-european-council-pleads-for-brexit-deal-we-can-defend-to-our-people/?utm_content=buffer1c353&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Theresa May told European Union leaders over a summit dinner in Brussels that both sides in the Brexit talks needed to strike a deal they could “defend to our people.”

The British prime minister arrived in Brussels Thursday with no new offer for the Brexit talks, but she insisted in an entreaty to EU leaders that her Florence speech and personal commitment to its proposals had “taken us forward,” according to a senior U.K. official who briefed journalists on her remarks.

This sounds pretty desperate to me, especially coming from a neutral source, but I'd be curious to know from Gnet Leavers how they've seen her trip to the EU summit reported

I believe we have offered billions - 17 billion I believe at the last round of talks

How interesting Day6. It appears that something which is as clear as mud to most of us is as clear as mud to you too.

Thanks to those who have put on links. The obfuscation coming from the government means all this information is especially useful and necessary.

I think we can all agree that the sticking point is the money?
Surely to goodness this was one of the easiest 'problems' to sort.
The eu say: you owe us x amount
We say: can I see the bill please, not unreasonable.
It's now been 14 months so surely it's not too much to ask that with all the brain power we have in London and Brussels the correct amount could be agreed.
I can appreciate that if they wanted the figures in a week that would be a big ask, but it's 14 months!!!
I'm sure there will be some who will say that I'm looking at this in a too simplistic way, but I've always been someone who can sort the wheat from the chaff and get straight to the heart of a problem, I don't see problems, I see solutions.

I'm sure that had you been in charge of negotiations, Petra it would be all over bar the shouting now and we'd all be basking on the sunny uplands of la la land eating large amounts of cake and cuddling our unicorns.

As we don't have the benefit of your superior skills we are in a dreadful mess and not looking likely to come through it with any money or pride left.

The sticking point is not just money. It's also the Irish border and the fact that May has not yet agreed on the rights of EU citizens.
The same three sticking points that were said to be so easy at the beginning of negotiations.

Oh dear petra I think you’ve been watching too much “Apprentice*

Whitewave
Strange that you mentioned the Apprentice. I met Alan Sugar a few weeks back when he presented my Daughter with a business award.
Cutting through the crap is his mantra, I don't think he's done too bad with that belief.
But I've never seen that awful programme.

Having read Nick Clegg's book the only way forward I can agree with is to continue supporting OpenBritain and other similar groups aiming to ExitBrexit with a second referendum if that is what can be agreed. Any sort of Brexit hard or soft is simply too damaging for the country.

We need to keep the pressure up as best we can, recruit more converts and hope for a return to sanity. As David Davis once said "If a democracy cannot change; it ceases to be a democracy".

Cutting through the crap is his mantra, I don't think he's done too bad with that belief.

Of course, the real problem is that running a country isn't the same as running a business. When running a country you have to take account of inconvenient things like the protecting the weaker members of society , listening to and responding to minority views and interests and taking them into account when making decisions. It means respecting the democratic institutions of the country (which includes not irresponsibly using a referendum on a major constitutional change to solve internal party problems and blithely promising to respect its result). It is also the responsibility of a government to provide conditions, such as infrastructure, for economic growth and prosperity which benefits all its citizens.

A government which 'cuts through the crap' is usually known as a dictatorship and is rightly feared by all who value the democratically achieved rights and freedoms they are accustomed to.

'Cutting through the crap is his mantra'; so what does he make of gutterpress headlines telling us that 'the Queen is anti Europe' etc. Or BoJo's comments about clearing away dead bodies in whereveritis? Boy is there a lot of crap to clear away at the moment.

Looks like Make Votes Matter had an interesting and busy conference season.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/news/2017/10/20/party-conference-2017

Tegan2 we all saw Her Majesty wearing that lovely blue hat to the state opening of parliament.

There was a comment by someone close to HM who said "nothing about the royal wardrobe is ever accidental".

I think the Queen was most eloquently expressing her disgust at the fake news peddlers in the gutter press,.

I was fascinated by the manoeuvres last week in Brussels.

The general opinion seems to be that the European leaders understand that Maybot is a dead duck, but they recognise that she is preferable to the possible alternative.

There is still a consensus for the agreed phased approach, but the joke of it is that Davis still seems to be on the first rung. Whatever is the matter with him? I suspect it is his government that are buggering about. The biggest headache is IMO Ireland, and nothing positive seems to be coming from that.

We don’t get the full picture just from news/tweets/ etc though whitewave there will be more going on behind the scenes.
It’s not simply the UK that needs a deal, the EU need one with us.With need on both sides, after the brinkmanship, a deal will be done.

Oh wise one - I was unaware that I had suggested that the EU didn’t want a deal, in fact my post suggests the opposite.

Interested to know where you think I get my information lemon as you seem to know.