Let's not forget Brexit

"4fatsausages" I understand your concern but with respect the issue you raise is nothing to do with the EU. I suggest you make your local social services aware of the situation if you have not already done so.

The lack of border controls is largely down to the UK government not imposing the controls it can. Most of the Muslim immigrants originate from outside the EU.

As for control of our own our courts they rarely clash with the ECJ. Most laws we inherit from the EU are on balance good ones.

The referendum was based on 2 main lies £350 millions a week for the NHS and cutting immigration. The former an outright lie and the latter down to sloppy border controls by the UK border agency. The demographic of the majority of leaves voters who are the older, not always wiser, members of society, is such that within around 10 years over of half of them will likely have passed on. The younger ones are those who will loose their jobs and suffer economically.

The referendum should never have happened. But it did and the government appears tied by dogmatism to Brexit irrespective of the consequences. National self harm is just beyond reasonable comprehension. That is why so many REMAIN voters are determined to do their utmost to stop what they see as insanity.

Some LEAVERS want to leave whatever the cost and whatever the lies. Their children and grand children will suffer along with the rest of us. If that is what you really want......

Anyone watching Channel 4 news?

We decided to leave; it's our problem. As far as the EU is concerned the internal market is the most important thing.
We don't want to be part of it, so tough. Sort yourselves out, and then the EU will discuss terms.

If you think young girls are being exploited you should report it to the authorities. Most immigrants , legal and illegal are from non EU countries. Most EU migrants are not muslims. We are in conrol of our borders but haven't bothered to implement that control, preferring to cut police, border force , prison officers etc. Much of this whilst T May was home sec, not sure why brextreemists think it's all going to be so much better ? no of years down the line.

Unfortunately there is so much false info, false news and the fear factor at work that many people have tended to believe. The simple fact is that nobody knows precisely what will happen after we leave. There is no point in worrying now about something that may not happen or indeed to welcome good news that is not based on facts.

As you may be aware, I was not in favour of leaving or totally in favour of staying but more in favour of staying than of leaving. However, we are now leaving - or attempting to and I feel I could knock 28 heads together. We have to remember that the UK told the EU we wanted to leave.

I believe that May's arrogance and the arrogance of her cabinet have made them blinkered. Even if I had voted to leave I would not want the Tories negotiating this for me. Instead of calling an election - the election of a President instead of an election for our countries Parliamentary system - she should have taken the opportunity of the belief that they were huge numbers ahead and set about making a cross party team. She could still do that. The EU would then be aware that we stood together.

I still think we should have worked harder to stay. Both within the country, where many of the things blamed on the EU were actually the fault of our governments and within the EU, where we appear to have sent many unknowns to do what they would in the Parliament without, it appeared, an agreed manifesto from the country. We could have done better to make a post-war vision work.

But we are were we are and I believe that May will never take the country with her if she does not include all those who voted to leave and those who accept that this will happen from whatever party background. Currently the country is split. The Tories have exacerbated that split but they could still do something to heal it - but they seem to be small men (and women) by comparison to past parliamentarians so I have my doubt that they have it in them.

I imagine quite a few people voted Brexit on the basis of "too many non-white immigrants, or too many illegal immigrants."

That immigration problem has nothing at all to do with the EU.

But the Brexiteers (Farage, Boris, Gove etc) encouraged this with their images of "swarms" of darker skinned men queuing up to, apparently, get into Britain.

We decided to leave; it's our problem. As far as the EU is concerned the internal market is the most important thing.

I agree that is unhelpful but we did decide to leave and may therefore have to put ourselves in the drivers seat again. I just do not want the Tories being the only ones involved in this. The leavers and those prepared to listen to leaving from the other parties need a voice.

It may be that the EU is incapable of moving. One of the things that has come out today is the very narrow brief Barnier has and his inability (not his pay-grade) to go outside it.

That is what the EU27 said, GracesGran. They are right. There is a protocol to go through which every country agreed to.
The UK can't change the rules of leaving just because they no longer want to be a member.

As a British national living in the EU I obviously voted to Remain ...but not just in my interests, but in the interests of the next generation in the UK ...already consequences of this idiotic decision have affected jobs and businesses in the UK ...the UK government is a total shambles ....no direction, no idea ...just continuos rhetoric, silly slogans and denial.

Michel Barnier and Guy Verhofstadt are so far the only two politicians to speak ANY sense whatever .....nothing will be discussed further UNTIL the rights of both EU citizens inthe UK and UK citizens living in EU countries are settled. I could not believe May the other day when she was asked about this, saying We guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK and then she was asked about UK Citizens in the EU and her response was 'I don't know anything about them'///marvellous ! A lot of Brits in the EU STILL pay taxes in the UK but would not be entitled to return if the negotiations go pear shaped and there is no agreement on our future ...we would not be entitled to immediate use of the NHS, no rights to anything until we met the 'residency' requirements ......a lot of ex pat Brits are of an age and health situation where a forced return would simply mean a death sentence ....and this is no exaggeration ! I can already hear the chorus 'you made your bed, you lie on it' ...yes, agreed BUT if my bed is uncomfortable, I would get out and re make it ! The UK keeps declaring it does not believe in assisted suicide .....however, if sick and old people had to return, or indeed remain living in the EU with no healthcare (private health ins would cost, to cover serious long terms illnesses, in excess of E2,000 a month ...needless to say, FAR more than our UK old age pension !) therefore, the UK is endorsing assisted suicide by the back door when it suits ....assisted in those cases, by the UK Government !
Brick bat will be returned ...............

I think they probably can Jen. So many governments and the EU used to moving very, very slowly.

Oh dear, some posts on this thread remind me of the neighbour who told me she'd voted Leave because her sister had told her there were too many Somalis in Bristol.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-10/workers-trapped-in-brexit-limbo-are-now-targeted-by-denmark-inc

They can't change the rules. They can walk away without a deal, but the other 27 countries will still go by the same rules.

infacts.org/regulatory-mayhem-ahead/

Infacts is an extremely good site.

infacts.org/eu-will-wring-billions-uk-talks-move/

The UK has a population of 65 million approx. The majority for the leave vote was 1plus million - not a large majority at all for such a huge life changing decision for so many people.
There was little thought given to the reality of how the lives of people would be affected. This vote is having a devastating effect on about 5 million people - many of whom where not allowed to vote on the question.
I am in the same group a woman who gave a speech at the UNISON conference today. She has reported a bit as to how her speech went down - she was of course speaking to people who have a good idea of how politics etc work. She says that many of the delegates had no idea of how this Brexit deal is affecting people's lives.

"Yes and don’t forget after these negotiations we're going to be launching a Global Britain where as Dr Victoria Bateman University of Cambridge has argued ; ‘Britain accounts for only 2.5 percent of global trade in goods and services compared with 16.3 percent for the EU. While the EU accounts for 14 percent of global imported goods and 20 percent of global imported services, the equivalent figures for the U.K. are just 2.2 percent and 2.9 percent. Britain has much less to offer foreign countries in return for them giving British firms tariff-free access to their own markets.’ and moreover ‘the difficulty the U.K. will encounter trying to negotiate eight separate bilateral trade agreements to cover the majority — 80 percent — of its present trade, and another 150 to cover all of its existing trade."

Reply to that last infacts article.

VIOLETTE, I'm sorry but I don't understand, are you saying that citizens of the UK who still hold a British passport, would not be entitled to return to the United Kingdom if the negotiations go pear shaped? Sorry if I'm being naive, but I genuinely don't understand.

And additionally that these citizens would not be able to obtain health care from the NHS?

It is all very difficult to understand - there are people with British passports who have lived abroad for years and do lose their rights to use of the NHS etc. despite the free at the point of need. I have a friend it happened to some 25 years ago - she was in hospital and told she was not eligible for free treatment. So not a new thing.
People who are receiving a UK state pension - as in Old age pension - are entitled to free NHS care all the time and should have a UK issued EHIC card which shows this. Younger people need their cards or health cover from the country they reside in.
There have been conflicting statements as to the assistance people returning from the EU would be entitled to.

That's one of the things that May is supposed to be negotiating, but she does not want EU citizens to even have the same agreement that they have now.

infacts.org/davis-bigs-expat-health-card-deal/

Boris thinks that we should be able to get the big ship moving down the slipway with a tiger in the tank!!!!

Making a lot of snarling and growling, I imagine.

I saw him saying all that Jen. He is such a fool of a man.

Lets stop moaning and groaning about something we cannot change as the outcome of the democratic vote was to leave. Whatever will be, will be. As lemongrove quite rightly states, its not the end of the world!