Gransnet forums

News & politics

EU wants us to pay 89 BILLION divorce charges.

(395 Posts)
Day6 Fri 20-Oct-17 13:07:50

Walk away very quickly Theresa May. This is NOT ON. Blackmail or what?

How many of us knew that was the figure the EU demanded? Spite and greed...

From the Guardian. On Thursday morning, political allies of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, confirmed that the EU wants the UK to agree to pay up to €100bn (£89.4bn) to settle the Brexit divorce bill.

89 BILLION........89 BILLION!!! Before Brussels will even consider a trade deal.

I see the Leaving the EU thread has been pulled because of personal insults.

We have to pull the plug on the EU because this is a divorce lawyers equivalent of pure spite and greed.

We will walk away with no deal and rightly so. Being held over a barrel by EU politicians is not on. We have made an a reasonable offer ...in billions, (£17b billion I believe) just to break away, before any trade deal is discussed. This is not acceptable to the greedy Brussels gravy train.

Now we are being held to ransom by Brussels,

No business man EVER would settle for a bad deal. No wonder talks have stalled.

Walk away very quickly Theresa May. This is blackmail.

WTO talks should begin asap. We will trade with the rest of the world. The EU is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. Let it do so.

89 BILLION. It is beyond belief...That's what the EU wants just to settle the divorce bill before any trading agreement is reached. I would not want to do business with that firm of shysters.

No deal it is and rightly so. That is all we can consider in the face of EU spite and greed. Let's start afresh.

nigglynellie Wed 25-Oct-17 11:07:18

One thing I shall hopefully be pleased to see post brexit is that farm subsidies will be paid to farmers who actually need them and benefit by them, not to rich landowners who certainly don't. No wonder Michael Hesseltine is so furious about Brexit, nice little earner that, fingers crossed will be no more for people like him.

Day6 Wed 25-Oct-17 11:20:39

"One of the major effects of the European law to English legal system is on direct applicability or direct effect. For instance, the British constitution establishes that parliament is sovereign. This means that no other law in Britain that are above laws made by the government. Relative to its sovereignty it is clear that Parliament is the highest legislative authority in UK: only Parliament can create law, No court in UK can impede or restrict Parliament’s law making ability. Parliament can make whatever laws it wants, and the courts must apply that law, Parliament’s sphere of legislation has no limits; it can legislate on any matter of its choosing (E.g. retrospective legislation) and No parliament can bind a future Parliament. Therefore, Parliament can make or cancel any law it chooses, and the courts must enforce it. However, membership of the EC has compromised this principle (Reich 2005).

According to the primary law of the European community set in the treaty of Rome in 1957, * all the primary laws of the treaty affect all the member countries and Great Britain is not exceptional. Treaty of Rome is superior to all domestic laws and other laws from individual states should concur with it. This contradicts the sovereignty of the Britain Parliament* which is believed to be above other legal systems (Aziz 2004).

MaizieD Wed 25-Oct-17 11:23:12

^ that is an essay by a law student and it contains at least one statement that would be disputed by many.^

And as such, may just be an exercise in arguing a point from a certain point of view. The writer could well have been subsequently asked to write an essay examining UK parliamentary sovereignty and the EU from a completely different angle. That's what law students have to be able to do.

I think I'd rather rely on the opinion of a fully fledged lawyer.

trisher Wed 25-Oct-17 11:28:30

Apart from the awful English
This means that no other law in Britain that are above laws made by the government.
There is also no British constitution as such. It is unwritten and generally operates by usual practice.

Day6 Wed 25-Oct-17 11:31:35

From The Economist then Maizie, if you are happy to continue to bury your head in the sand.

Post Treaty of Rome....

"The European Commission was granted independent authority, including the sole power to propose European laws and the duty to oversee its implementation. The ECJ was to turn itself, with the full consent of the member states, into Europe’s supreme judicial authority, and national legal codes were in time to be transformed by the commitments made at Rome. Future treaties extended the powers of each of these institutions, driven always by the pledge made at Rome to work for “ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe.”

Thankfully, we have elected to break away from the Federation of Europe the modern EU is hell bent on creating.

MaizieD Wed 25-Oct-17 11:34:50

No wonder Michael Hesseltine is so furious about Brexit, nice little earner that, fingers crossed will be no more for people like him.

It's bizarre that Leavers can ascribe purely pecuniary motives to backers of Remain but don't worry about all the billionaire backers of Leave looking to make a killing from the the bonfire of regulations that they are expecting and from the inevitable break up and privatisation of the NHS and other public services which we won't be able to afford once we've left.

MaizieD Wed 25-Oct-17 11:36:18

And the author, Day6? It always helps to know the stance of the author.

Day6 Wed 25-Oct-17 11:36:29

MaizieD And as such, may just be an exercise in arguing a point from a certain point of view.

You could argue EU law-making from any angle and with any bias but facts remain facts Maizie. You cannot twist those.

Day6 Wed 25-Oct-17 11:37:49

Ha ha ha.....Maizie.

Like a dog with a bone.

Look it up yourself. I am sure you can copy and paste.

MaizieD Wed 25-Oct-17 11:43:23

Thanks for the suggestion, Day6. I'll look later as I'm off on a 5 hour drive very shortly.

MaizieD Wed 25-Oct-17 11:43:58

P.S. I'm not the only dog with a bone...

Tegan2 Wed 25-Oct-17 12:01:34

Isn't it also strange that leavers continually accuse those of us who don't vote Conservative [whilst always assuming that our politics are to the far right, which, certainly in my case isn't correct]of instantly castigating all Tory MP's even though I, for one, think that Hesleltine is actually a man of great integrity [as is Ken Clarke] and I have great respect for him.

nigglynellie Wed 25-Oct-17 12:35:53

We're all entitled to our opinion Tegan2, I personally think it's disgraceful that wealthy landowners including the Royal Family get subsidies which would be much better spent where they're really needed and hopefully post brexit this anomaly will be corrected. But perhaps you approve of the status quo?!

nigglynellie Wed 25-Oct-17 12:37:05

Also, in passing, I've no idea what your politics are and care even less.

whitewave Wed 25-Oct-17 12:38:29

day I’m very unclear that there is any evidence from the cases conducted by the ECJ that there are any that impinge on U.K. domestic law.

I simply can’t understand why you continue with repeating that this is the case without providing any evidence of these cases.

I can provide evidence of miriad cases relating to EU law. But none relating to U.K. domestic law.

whitewave Wed 25-Oct-17 12:40:17

I see that Bloomberg in giving a lecture has stated that apart from voting in Trump no other country has done such a destructive thing to itself as the U.K. has done in voting in Brexit.

durhamjen Wed 25-Oct-17 13:31:32

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-food-crisps-gove-drink_uk_59ef6c1ae4b04917c5938930?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

Anyone stocking up on crisps?

durhamjen Wed 25-Oct-17 13:50:49

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-mccarthyism_uk_59f064cce4b0b7e632660c90?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

This article says it's Brexiteers who try to shut down debate.

petra Wed 25-Oct-17 16:12:49

So much for free movement and unity for Europe.
Macron is pushing a bill through for a 12 month cap on posted workers. The eastern block aren't happy, I wonder why grin

durhamjen Wed 25-Oct-17 16:19:18

Davis doesn't have any idea what's going on.

infacts.org/davis-either-content-chaos-utterly-clueless/

durhamjen Wed 25-Oct-17 16:33:55

Dairy farmers are warning that a no-deal brexit will put up the price of milk.
Article in Telegraph.

Firecracker123 Wed 25-Oct-17 17:02:52

A price worth paying.

Jalima1108 Wed 25-Oct-17 17:06:48

It's about time we paid our farmers the proper price for milk.

nigglynellie Wed 25-Oct-17 17:24:40

Milk is far too cheap and has been for a long time, so that could be a good thing. Our neighbours got rid of their milking herd month's ago as it just became too much work for far too little return. The poor old girls went for slaughter when they should have had years left in them, as no one else wanted them. They now bed and breakfast beef cattle, half the work and much more profitable.

JessM Wed 25-Oct-17 17:25:30

Glaringly clear that the main benefit of leaving would be to a subset of the very rich - the same subset who donated a lot of money to the Leave campaign. They want the UK to be a "low regulation" economy in which employee rights - including women's rights - are greatly diminished and taxes for the rich are very low. This will create a low wage economy in which they will be free to bring in cheap labour from outside the EU. Priti Patel said this quite clearly to the IOD a couple of weeks before the referendum. www.tuc.org.uk/news/priti-patel-reveals-leave-campaign-agenda-reduce-workers’-rights-says-tuc Nothing whatsoever to do with important sounding utterances about "sovereignty".