Westminster and sexual harassment

There was nothing to stop her from humiliating him at the time of the alleged 'touching'
They WERE in company so a 'take your hands off my leg you dirty git' loud and clear would or should have done the trick.

Surely had she done so he would have apologised, said it was accidental and she’d have been left looking like an idiot.

I agree with Anniebach. It happened a long time ago when we would all have to admit things were different. It wasn't acceptable, it wasn't serious and it was dealt with quite properly by the woman. I believe she was just 'getting on to the bandwagon' by telling all so many years later.

I think what most of you are missing about this whole furore around unwanted sexual attention is that the men involved had power over the future of the women. It is about abuse of power and 20 years ago JHB would have been at the start of her career. What else has MF done in the last 20 years? The female activist who made allegations against the Labour MP was discouraged(!) from taking the matter further at the time, so no support there.

The JHB incident is very small beer compared with some of the other allegations coming out of the woodwork, but almost all of them the women were in a situation where their careers could be ruined. It's not always an easy option to say no or speak up. It's much easier to be wise after the event.

I agree its a power thing. When I first went to work the boss used to get all the young girls in the office to line up in the morning to see who had the shortest mini, we were all 16/17, some thought he was just a dirty old man and laughed it off others were uneasy, I left pretty quickly so have no idea how long it went on for. A friend said in her typing pool they used to pair up to go to the loo as they had to cross a large open office and had all sorts of things said to them every time plus some touching. We are going back to the sixties I admit.

I also agree with Anniebach and the OP - there is a huge difference between someone touching a knee 15 years ago and sexual assault or rape. Times have changed and men need to know that this sort of behaviour isnt acceptable but why rake it all up now? I dont think it's a resigning matter, but of course Fallon may be guilty of other things too which Iam not aware of.
I know lots of men my age who enjoy a little flirtatious banter but none of it is offensive and I know perfectly well that they are harmless. It's obvious when someone is making a move on you and that is a different matter entirely.

Sorry but I am totally fed up of listening to all this on the 'NEWS' ..is it news ? there are far worse things happening in the world today ....seems odd to me that if these women (and men) who are now crawling out of the woodwork had a complaint that they have kept quite about it until now ...I wonder why > The cynic in me says either for 'comp-en-say-shun' or publicity ...................time to shut it down and move on.....don't care if you shoot me down in flames ! Used to happen all the time in the professional offices I worked in in the City ....we gave as good as we got, or a good slap ....bosses or not ! just used to laugh about it !

There are so many pages of this thread that i doubt anyone will read anymore- I haven't read it all I just hope it is a balanced argument. Everyone seems guilty these days without evidence, investigation and then justice if there has been a victim. Many women take exception to something that I may not. Like many here i grew up in the liberated 60s I too was a young woman in an Industry where there were men in power- all senior men will be in power if you are more junior. As an assertive young woman, as i am today now retired I managed any comments/ behaviour appropriately at the time. Admittedly I never found myself or put myself, in a room/situation where I could have been subject to a serious assault.( But all powerful men and women had offices of their own in those days! I did but there was always someone on the other side!! ) However the thing that is annoying me most is the fact that throughout this country and across all social sectors and various religious beliefs there are men seriously abusing women, physically mentally and financially. All races and creeds will have a man who will control women's lives .Why oh why is the outrage about men who have touched knees ( by the way as a tactile professional woman i have touched men's knees without anything but professional warmth throughout my career! )....so why is there so little outrage at the many many women having to leave homes and take children as a last resort to refuges....why oh why don't we have this all over the media so that we have at least some mechanism to help prevent or stop it. The charities supporting these women see nothing like the passion that has arisen for a few women who feel aggrieved ( this does not of course include rape, assault or other abuse as described) . i do despair at what we shout out about and the hypocrisy we generate

Things are really getting out of hand, but one wonders sometimes when people come forward why they havnet dont it years ago, as most of these cases have occured ages ago.
We have had a case recently here in Sweden, among many others, but this stands out, a TV personality, has been reported by a young lady for making advances some six years ago, nothing said, then a year later they lived together for five years, and NOW she has come forward! I ask you, what is it all about?!

This is probably going to cause a backlash but I think young women of today have brought all this behavior from men on themselves. They want to be treated as equals, they seem to want to be one of the ‘lads’ because they knock the booze back like lads and swear like troupers plus dress like tarts. I don’t respect girls like that, how can we expect men to. When I was a girl in the 60’s if a man swore in front me because he hadn’t realized I was there, he’d apologise. I’m not condoning this sexual harassment just pointing out that some men are getting mixed signals from some women.

Can't believe the apologists on this thread. I despair.

Women are often women's worst enemies Wilma.

I dont think it's a resigning matter, but of course Fallon may be guilty of other things too which Iam not aware of.

Fallon thought it was a resigning matter, so you're probably right about "guilty of other things".

Many men are predatory or opportunistic from the bottom to the top of the chain ... going forward we should all be teaching our daughters/granddaughters to know how to deal with it all appropriately. There is also plenty of help and advice out there these days. As for historic cases, that’s the hard bit.

It is all irritating and annoying. Rape is one thing, and what Michael Fallon and his ilk did is quite another. I accidentally caught part of a news programme with Piers Morgan where he was interviewing some girl who was castigating and producing photos of a group of young men who had wolf-whistled at her. So what? Lucky girl. That is a very old way of showing a pretty girl that she's appreciated. Personally I used to love it if the boys noticed me. I can also remember bending down in my mini skirt whilst doing the filing and the effect it had on the apprentices in the Drawing Office! Heady Days!!! Now they give up their seats on the bus when they see me with my walking stick if they notice me at all. No, I don't agree with men sexually assaulting women, but PLEASE, men hitting on women has been going on since the dawn of time when the randy little buggers used to hit us over the head with a club before dragging us off into their caves. I'd probably give up my false teeth for some chap to grab my knee under the table, if only I could stand the pain from the arthritis. And women don't sexualise men? What about all those romantic Mills and Boon books etc? And don't tell me it is only in Westminster and Hollywood. It is in every place where men and women congregate for whatever reason. Personally I used to love a good old flirt.

I'm glad you understand ilovecheese, I simply wasn't brought up to stick up for myself. When I look back on what a wimp I was it makes me cringe.
The perpetrators who behave like this can spot a perfect victim a mile off - they'd never try it on with a confident person, would they?
It may be a tiresome topic for some but on the whole I think it's a good thing that this is discussed.

I have felt for some time (in fact since I belatedly started taking an interest in politics) that the Palace of Westminster, and the whole parliamentary system in general, lags light-years behind the country as a whole. Yet another reason why the whole thing should be relocated, reformed and dragged into the modern world.

The manner in which "Sir" quickly resigned suggests that he wanted the matter buried asap before anything else came out of the woodwork. In the present circumstances there is a very good chance that something else will so avoiding the possibility is the advice of PR people in general.

Me too lovebeigecardigans1955

Surely it shouldn’t be up to women to stand up to male gropers etc. Men shouldn’t be doing it in the first place especially in the workplace.

Exactly suzied, I agree we should help our daughters to be assertive but what about our sons and grandsons? Some posts here suggest that the poor chaps just can't help themselves and its up to women to put a stop to their abusive behaviour.
that's the point isn't it, abusive behaviour. I simply don't understand how women can be apologists for the misuse of power exercised by men in the workplace, the home and the world in general.
I'm not suggesting that some women don't behave badly and I'd include showing your nickers to young men by bending over etc in 'behaving badly'. Respect dignity etc aren't dirty words, it doesn't mean you can't have fun and warm relationships with other people. I'm stunned that some posters persist in saying that those of us who object to people being objectified, lewd comments made, inappropriate touching taking place are somehow conflating a bit of flirting with rape.

Some posts on here are absolutely disgusting in what they reveal about what behaviour some women were prepared to engage in and not just tolerate but encourage.Thank goodness I was brought up to have more respect for myself and to not value myself through the prism of how men reacted to me. The lack of nuance in some of the posts is breathtaking - sexual assault is illegal and wrong - unwanted sexualised attention is wrong- who is conflating the two?

oh for god's sake, lighten up!

No I won’t

So it seems the complaint came from Andrea Leasom.

Call me cynical, but it seems more and ore that either or botrh

- Fallon was looking for any excuse to jump off ship as Brexit is going belly up

- the Brexiters in the GVT wanted to get him out to replace him with another