Private wealth and public squalor

"As this is a thread about the concentration of wealth, it's just interesting to observe that both Polly Toynbee and Dawn Porter are both comfortably in the 1%. Do as I say, not as I do?"

Absolutely Primrose. I won't read anything by the sickening Toynbee. She is the epitome of 'champagne socialist'.

I think there is also an argument for not bringing children into the world unless you can support them and not expect the state to provide, but hell's teeth, that's another can of worms. I'd be very surprised if that is part of Toynbee's argument. Being abjectly poor is something many of us know about, as is survival, before I am lectured about being 'uncaring'. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am more concerned about people paying their dues, and indeed the wealth gap, housing being tied up as investment and tax loopholes. There is revenue to be made there instead of surreptitiously hammering the working class who put the hours in but get nowhere fast in terms of social mobility.

Polly Toynbee is liberal, not socialist.
She came into her wealth when her husband died.
Strange thing to be criticised for.

Maybe if you'd read something by Toynbee you would have found that out, instead of just calling her names.

I think she had a pretty privileged upbringing - Badminton School is not to be sniffed at dj!

It was clear at the last election that our economy is not working for all, and more and more people are losing out. I think this is a catalyst for change, and I hope that inspirational people, such as the head of New Economics Foundation, the subject of your link from the Guardian dj will help to influence this change.

Polly Toynbee is liberal, not socialist.

Yes, 'liberal' in the very worst sense of the word and quite hypocritical.

I have read lots by Toynbee much of which I went off her very slowly over the years.

A recent revelation...."Yet for all of Toynbee’s comments, she ought to check her own privilege before passing judgement. After all, Toynbee knows a thing or two about wealth. While she told Guido Fawkes back in 2011 that her earnings were around £110,000 per annum, it’s thought that her personal wealth is considerably more. The class warrior owns a holiday home in Tuscany and in terms of some of her spending, she is ahead of even the ‘phenomenally rich’ David Cameron in some departments.

When it comes to private education, Toynbee sent two of her three children to public school."

I doubt that Toynbee wants her wealth ‘shared out’ durhamjen
Regardless of her politics, she usually appears rather smug IMHO.

Although I don't agree with everything Polly Toynbee says, I think she is a person who has made a great contribution in arguing for more equality of wealth. In 2003 she wrote a book called Hard Work detailing her experience trying to live on benefits or on very low pay. It was a very moving book that, I'm sure if more people read it, would make people understand how unjust our society is.

We don't know if Toynbee gives money to charities or helps people in need. If she sold everything she had and gave all her money away it would be but a pebble on a beach. What is needed is systemic change, not a few people chucking a few pounds at charity.

The programme that whitewave mentioned showed how the 1% have increased their wealth four-fold since the collapse of 2007, whereas everybody else has become poorer. Even some of the people who were very wealthy agreed that this is a perilous situation which, in the long run, benefits no one because it undermines our whole capitalist system.

Toynbee went to Holland Park School, the same school that Tony and Caroline Benn sent their children.

You'll be saying it's not a proper comprehensive next because they went there.

I completely agree Eloethan. The whole of society suffers because of such an unequal situation. I think that demonising wealthy individuals ignores the wider picture, that the whole system needs to change.

I'd also love to know how you found out that Polly Toynbee is in the 1%.
Even fullfact can't find that out, as they are very secretive.

fullfact.org/economy/wealth-uk-richest-1-and-poorest-20/

fullfact.org/economy/fifty-years-income-inequality/

Showing the spread of income inequality.

Just to set the record straight, Polly Toynbee did go to Badminton School in Bristol, followed by Holland Park School.

Holland Park School is one that well off parents fight tooth and nail to get their offspring into.

Spot on lemongrove!

High society magazine The Tatler has this to say with regards to the top state school 2017.

"We make no apologies for including Holland Park again: it is, quite simply, the gold standard for state education. It's worth going to an open day just to check out the Notting Hillites angling for a place. "

Lucky Toynbee.

I would have liked the DD to go to Badminton School but it was way out of our price bracket!!
Although some of DD2's friends did go there.

Why are we arguing about Polly T.?! The rich are getting richer and largely skive out of paying the right amount of tax. The poor are getting poorer. How much longer will the poor suffer in silence? Surely the future looks perilous unless someone takes action.

Because they'd much rather talk about Polly Toynbee than think about income inequality as shown on the fullfact links?

I think it's called throwing down a dead cat.

Are those denigrating Toynbee annoyed because wealthy people have no business to be deeply concerned about inequality and poverty in our society? Upsetting the natural order of things i.e that the rich shall profit as much as possible from the poor without concerning themselves with the lives of the por?

Do you have to stop being even vaguely socialist once your income/wealth passes a certain level?

(apologies to Morgana for reverting to Toynbee again)

‘Do you have to stop being even vaguely Socialist once your income/ wealth passes a certain level’
An interesting question MaizieD
Certainly it’s true that Toynbee is vaguely Socialist, though very vaguely.

I agree Morgana. Arguing about individuals is just side tracking and doesn't look at the underlying cause of our dysfunctional society or how to deal with it.

We ought not to confuse the super rich with the top 1%. Those at the bottom end of the top 1% are a long way from the breadline but equally far from being super rich.

According to the Resolution Foundation, the top 1% has completely recovered from the crash, unlike the other 99%.
That's people with income of over £275,000.
That looks very rich as far as I am concerned.

£275k pa is a lot of money but still a long long way short of super rich. As to the top 1%, where this starts in terms of income seems to depend on where you look - I’ve just seen figures of 100k and £165k. From what I have read in the past I think the latter figure is the most reliable. Whether that’s rich depends on your starting point. Those on the average UK salary would be considered rich by a lot of people around the world. In any event, my point still stands - a discussion about the vulgar, profligate and in many ways distressing, displays of wealth by a few people with hundreds of millions of pounds stashed away in offshore accounts, is a totally different discussion to one around the equitable distribution of wealth between the poor and the highly paid.

The resolution foundation article I read stated that the difference in income between the top and bottom of the 99% has actually reduced.
It's just the 1% moving further away from the rest.