Gransnet forums

News & politics

Paradise Papers

(268 Posts)
grannyactivist Mon 06-Nov-17 00:18:37

Thanks to a leak of financial documents I think we shall see many chickens coming home to roost in the near future. One of the first to be held to account is Lord Ashcroft. His spokesman, Alan Kilkenny, said the peer had never engaged in tax evasion, abusive tax avoidance or tax avoidance using artificial structures, and “any suggestion or implication that he has will be vigorously challenged”.
However, if you or I (assuming that you are not a multi millionaire politician) dealt with our tax affairs in the same way as he seems to have done I suspect we might be investigated by HMRI.

MaizieD Mon 06-Nov-17 17:37:54

Getting worse?

Slightly off topic but all about what people do with their wealth to subvert democracy:

In this truly alarming story I connect three significant articles to show that Brexit, far from being the result of representative democracy, is in fact a campaign of covert intervention by foreign billionaires to bring about economic chaos in Britain in order create the circumstances for making huge profits. This is not the stuff of mere conspiracy theories. Clear evidence has emerged that Brexit was engineered and is already proving to be a catastrophe, as confirmed by the mainstream media frenzy over Theresa May’s political mis-management of the greatest post-war challenge of our time. In part-one (by left leaning, The Guardian newspaper) we see how Brexit really came about and who influenced it. In part-two (by centre newspaper The Independent) we see how opaque and deceptive think tanks have heavily influenced Brexit and in part-three (by right leaning EUReferendum) we see that economic chaos is being planned in a post-Brexit era, who is involved and why. These articles identify the actors behind the current attack on Britain and what has happened to date so far. At the end, the reader should get a sense of the impending disaster being constructed by the super-rich against the people of Britain purely for profit. Just as oil speculators pushed up global energy prices to $145 a barrel just prior to the financial crash in what was termed the London Loophole, and then profited from short bets on the way down – Britain is being set up for a fall where those with big money will ultimately clean up.

www.globalresearch.ca/how-brexit-was-engineered-by-foreign-billionaires-to-bring-about-economic-chaos-for-profit/5614194/amp

About the website (for the cynical and sceptical)

www.globalresearch.ca/about

loopyloo Mon 06-Nov-17 17:42:23

I think HM is more interested in her corgis.

nigglynellie Mon 06-Nov-17 17:52:44

Don't think so! HM isn't stupid that's for certain!

acanthus Mon 06-Nov-17 18:13:49

Just a thought - those of us who have ISAs are all 'legal' tax avoiders......

annsixty Mon 06-Nov-17 18:26:33

Just heard more about this on the BBC news at 6 o' clock.
If all these taxes were paid I think we would be able to fully fund the NHS.

nigglynellie Mon 06-Nov-17 18:29:03

So many guilty people, inadvertently of course!

maryeliza54 Mon 06-Nov-17 18:29:05

The old ISA canard. Firstly ISAs were brought in to encourage people to save. They are not a vehicle for money laundering dictators, drug dealers,organised crime etc

maryeliza54 Mon 06-Nov-17 18:31:03

She’s morally complicit for not insisting on an ethical investment policy.

jura2 Mon 06-Nov-17 18:45:08

There are few people out there who do less 'virtue signaling' than our Queen. No-one is above the Law - and no-one should be able to hide behind the 'oh I didn't know, my accountants deal with that. I am one of the few here, perhaps the only one, who has sworn an oath of Allegiance to HRH - and I am not anti and agree she is not the worst offender- but she is not above the Law.

gillybob Mon 06-Nov-17 18:48:04

Totally agree maryeliza

Eloethan Mon 06-Nov-17 18:54:12

I think it is ridiculous to compare billionaires hiding their money in tax havens to "ordinary" people getting a tax benefit from putting their savings in ISAs. The government set up this scheme to try to encourage people to save. In any event, according to what I have read in finance columns in newspapers, some financial experts think putting money in ISAs isn't an especially good deal.

I wouldn't expect the queen to be aware of the specifics of how her money is invested. But, in my opinion, given that she is in receipt of a taxpayer-funded £45.6 million p.a. civil list payout (which has increased by 47% over the last 5 years) , surely she should have felt it improper to locate such money in offshore tax havens and made those feelings known to her advisors.

Some commentators have said that, given the queen's vast wealth, £10 million is pretty small fry and therefore the use of a tax haven for this supposedly insignificant amount is not a big deal. I don't happen to agree with that but, in any event, presumably putting some money in one tax haven does not prevent a person putting other money in another tax haven(s).

nigglynellie Mon 06-Nov-17 18:56:07

Well, I've certainly never queried the money invested that produces my state pension, or my modest company pension. DH has private investments recommended by a reputable source, but who knows?! I really don't think HM could possibly be castigated for not going through her portfolio with a fine toothcomb! Imo to think she should is quite ridiculous.

Jalima1108 Mon 06-Nov-17 19:06:49

I didn't think it was money from the civil list that has been invested in offshore tax havens is it, or have I missed something?

I think that money from the civil list gets paid out on expenses, salaries, all the running costs of a Head of State pretty much as soon as it comes in.

grove1234 Mon 06-Nov-17 19:21:46

And is the black economy tax avoidance /evasion does any one contribute to that

Ginny42 Mon 06-Nov-17 19:43:38

For me the main issue about the Queen's money being invested overseas is that if it was invested in companies at home she would be paying tax on it, and that money could be used for the services to all her citizens, e.g. education, the NHS etc.

She is effectively taking money from her own people, the very people who contribute to the civil list.

She only paid tax when it became clear that failure to do so was deeply unpopular with the people and as I understood it at the time, she 'volunteered' to pay her taxes.

It is actually an insult to the millions of British citizens, who work hard to live, many bringing up families on minimum wages and zero hours contracts, that the monarch would invest her assets where they don't contribute to the nation's wealth. At the very least she should be embarrassed by that thought. If she didn't know before where her money is invested, she must surely know now.

I await her declaration that she is moving her investments back to the UK.

jura2 Mon 06-Nov-17 19:52:59

hear, hear - perfectly said

henbane Mon 06-Nov-17 19:55:23

Those of us with ISAs can still choose ethical investments, and can choose to invest in UK funds - presumably HM could do the same.

NfkDumpling Mon 06-Nov-17 20:16:15

I doubt Her Maj has much to do with actually managing her investments. I should imagine she leaves it to a minion. I heard the overseas investment in question was for £3,000. A drop in her ocean.

Oldwoman70 Mon 06-Nov-17 20:31:43

Really? A report about rich people salting money away off shore has turned into a thread attacking a 91 year old woman - nice one!!!

durhamjen Mon 06-Nov-17 20:45:48

"The Times also published details of the Kremlin cash behind Russian billionaire investor Yuri Milner, who has invested significant amounts in Twitter and Facebook. Obscured by a maze of offshore shell companies, the Twitter investment was backed by VTB, a Russian state-controlled bank often used for politically strategic deals.

The revelations of how far the Kremlin has infiltrated Silicon Valley come at a sensitive time for Facebook and Twitter, which have faced accusations they were manipulated by Russia to help swing last year’s US presidential vote, as well as the Brexit referendum."

The Parasite papers are not just about the Queen and the UK.

durhamjen Mon 06-Nov-17 20:49:06

Something to think about; the combined GDP of the UK, Japan and France held in offshore accounts.

"While the vast majority of transactions break no law, they remain politically embarrassing and will pile pressure on Donald Trump and Theresa May, both of whom have pledged to crack down on tax avoidance.

They also come at a time of growing global inequality and anger at financial elites following a decade of economic hardship in the wake of the financial crash. The Boston Consulting Group estimates $10tn is held offshore around the world, the equivalent of the combined GDP of the UK, Japan and France."

hulahoop Mon 06-Nov-17 20:54:40

Well said ginny ,but I agree there's worse people than the queen laws won't be changed there's too many of the old friends network involved !!

durhamjen Mon 06-Nov-17 21:00:29

Time it was changed, hulahoop.

jura2 Mon 06-Nov-17 21:05:49

Watching Panorama I hope.

Jane10 Mon 06-Nov-17 21:24:19

Am I the only person who didn't think this was news? Surely off shore investing has been around since taxation began? Its not right and its not fair on those of us who faithfully pay every penny we owe in taxes but I'd be more interested if this current hoohaa was about putting an end to it than exciting revelations that third class actors and big businesses including a royal duchy had stashed their money away in tax havens.