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Labour Women's Officer

(29 Posts)
FarNorth Mon 20-Nov-17 07:53:00

Do you think this is a good appointment?

maisiegreen Mon 20-Nov-17 09:03:01

Why don't you tell us what you think first (feels a bit like being set an essay at school)?

Primrose65 Mon 20-Nov-17 09:57:28

I don't think Lily will be very effective. Protesting about school uniform with the help of solicitors is far easier than demonstrating leadership and working to represent women when you are 19.

maryeliza54 Mon 20-Nov-17 10:01:10

I’m completely against this but would be all for a transgender section. I feel the same about for example
prisons and refuges and changing rooms and showers.

Jenb60 Mon 20-Nov-17 10:13:38

Totally agree with maryeliza, read an article last week about transgender people being moved into different prisons, eg, moving from a men’s to a women’s prison then being a threat to those inside the prisons. Similar issue with changing rooms and toilets, women need to feel safe in such places and there currently seems to be an issue about appearing to be transphobic if safety issues are raised. This obviously delights any offenders. Perhaps we should have separate facilities for those who wish to use asexual facilities of any kind and named ones for those who wish to use those. On a less serious note, would be good to have another set of loos in every theatre, just not enough for women.

Anniebach Mon 20-Nov-17 10:21:49

So against this

lemongrove Mon 20-Nov-17 10:45:08

Looks like a typical PC stitch up.Complains about a woman who is already doing the job and gets the job himself/herself! What are they thinking of to appease in this way?

TerriBull Mon 20-Nov-17 11:23:17

From yesterday's Sunday Times :

Davina Ayrton sentenced to 8 years for raping a schoolgirl when she was previously known as David, although she still has her male genetalia she expressed a wish to serve her time in a women's prison.

Jessica Winfield a transgender double rapist convicted under previous male identity was moved to a women's jail after having a sex change. She still managed to make inappropriate advances to female prisoners.

According to research a disproportionate number of transgender convicts are sex offenders. The British Psychological Society warned that some biological men convicted of sex crimes had "falsely claimed to be transgender to seek better access to females and young children through presenting in an apparently female way"

Fair Play for Women estimates despite the imprecision of the figures it appears likely that between a third and a half of all England and Wales's transgender prisoners, 41% are sex offenders. That compares with a proportion of 17% in the prison population as a whole.

If the government's proposals to allow gender self definition go through the number of biological men in female jails is expected to increase sharply. There is a conflict here between transgender rights and the rights of other people such as women states Fair Play for Women.

The effect can be seen in Scotland where this policy is broadly in place and most trans prisoners are allowed to transfer to women's units without a gender recognition certificate. Scotland has 18 transgender prisoners, including 13 male to female. One of the 13, Paris Green, was convicted of murder as a man and has twice been allowed to transfer to women's units before being moved out again after having sex with female inmates.

Another trans inmate, Tiffany Scott, convicted as a man for stalking a 13 year old girl, assault and other offences, punched a prison officer and threw a chair at the prison nurse when Scott was asking to be known as Mighty Almighty, this led to a court hearing at which Scott screamed that the presiding sheriff was a "fucking transphobic bastard" for referring to her by the wrong pro noun.

Anniebach Mon 20-Nov-17 12:46:08

Good grief Terri, we have gone mad

Greyduster Mon 20-Nov-17 13:10:09

What are they thinking of to appease in this way? This person has already forced one one woman out of her job and brought about the resignation of others. They are afraid of her. Those who appointed her to this role deserve everything they get.

trisher Mon 20-Nov-17 15:25:20

Must admit I had to think very hard about this one. I have decided that it is OK as long as other posts are staffed equally on a completely non-biased way. I'm not sure Lily would be happy with this. For example would she want to see the post of LGBTQ officer filled by a heterosexual? The question of who does a job best is also interesting, for example does a person with children make a better Children's Officer than someone without any?

Primrose65 Mon 20-Nov-17 16:08:08

I'm not sure any person born as a woman would be elected as a Women's Officer at 19, only 6 months after joining the Labour Party. Being a member of Momentum probably helped. I'd be thrilled to be corrected.

Wheniwasyourage Mon 20-Nov-17 16:12:47

Yes, I had to think hard too, trisher and I'm still thinking. What I've come up with so far is:

1. Can any 19-year-old have enough experience to do this job?

2. Somebody who has got a job by ousting the previous incumbent Like that doesn' t inspire m=great confidence.

3. Lily sounds to me, from the article (a short one, I know), a bit condescending towards women in general.

4. I'm seriously concerned about the trangender sex offenders in women's prisons.

5. Why do we need Women's Officers anyway?

maryeliza54 Mon 20-Nov-17 16:42:28

This is just the beginning of many problems I feel. Justine Greening and Maria Millar are backing completely self identification but the support goes across the political parties. My opinion on trans women representing my interests as a woman are this - I was born a biological woman and have lived as a woman for over 70 years. I have experienced all the issues that most other biological women have - puberty, periods, pregnancy, childbirth, the menopause. Occasionally fear of the physical strength of men in certain circumstances. I really can’t accept that if ( maybe a silly example but hope it helps) my local GP surgery wanted a female patient on a patient representatives panel that I would for one minute accept that a self identifying trans woman could represent the needs and views of female patients anymore than I could represent male views if I became a trans man. Trans people have certain special needs and experiences that I cannot begin to guess at anD I would want their views taken seriously but not their views as proxy women.

maryeliza54 Mon 20-Nov-17 16:48:24

It would be a real mistake to think that the trans agenda has anything to do with the usual left-right political spectrum. If you are really anti the whole radical trans, self identification agenda that is running away with us, there is no where to go party politically for support. I think it’s absolutely horrifying and I have never felt so helpless and powerless about any other political issue as I do with this one.

maisiegreen Mon 20-Nov-17 17:21:48

are you going to come back and tell us what YOU think farnorth? It's a bit off to launch a subject so baldly, or are you a journalist looking for copy?

Christinefrance Mon 20-Nov-17 17:28:50

This whole thing is gaining momentum, not sure how I feel about the transgender issue. Whilst having sympathy with people who have these problems I think its being used as a platform by other groups. I agree with Wheniwasyourage in the main.

FarNorth Mon 20-Nov-17 19:54:09

Sorry you think it's a bit off not to give my view, maisie. I posted hastily before I went out for the day.
I didn't give a view in the opening post as I didn't want to see a discussion of my view, rather one of the news in the article.

My view is similar to maryeliza that the whole situation with trans people, especially male to female, is becoming very scary.

TerriBull Tue 21-Nov-17 14:39:36

For a less restrained take on this subject, try MN, a younger demographic than here who don't rein in their expletives. The general consensus there, or at least it was when I looked yesterday, is incredulity at the sheer buffoonery of such an appointment. So it seems Labour women are to be represented by a teenage boy, or one who could be described in such a way a little while ago, biologically still is I believe. One poster commented along the lines of, "it seems that any male can surpass even the very best of women in the party's eyes" Heaven knows what's coming down the line now the Pandora's Box is well and truly open confused

maryeliza54 Tue 21-Nov-17 14:58:30

Over the last few months, there have been many excellent and informative threads on MN on the issue of transgenderism. This particular appointment is just one ( and very small in the great scheme of things) example of how women’s position in society is being threatened and the impact that self identification of gender is going to have on women and girls. If you want to see it as a problem faced only by the Labour Party you are actually belittling the whole really serious issue. As I said upthread it’s got cross party suppprt with Justine Greening and Maria Millar leading the charge. I wrote to my lobby fodder Conservative MP ( Home Counties) and he is completely in favour of the proposed changes- the mantra and balance is all about the rights of transgender people with the inevitable pushing out of the way of rights for women and girls. This agenda is led by radical trans activists who are generally biologically male in every single sense of the word but think they should have the right to decide from day to day which gender that feel like being in whatever situation they feel like.

maryeliza54 Tue 21-Nov-17 15:03:30

Caroline Flint is the only MP I’m aware of who has said on the record that the rights of women and girls have to be taken into consideration as well if self identification comes about. One poster on MN had a very sympathetic response on the telephone from her MP but in public and in writing the MP would only parrot the official cross party line.

TerriBull Tue 21-Nov-17 15:13:01

I meant to add Justine Greening's stance and I acknowledge this is not a one party issue.

lemongrove Tue 21-Nov-17 16:30:30

This may well be the only issue that unites us on Gransnet.

maryeliza54 Tue 21-Nov-17 17:00:13

If only there were something that could be done about it - but there simply isn’t. All I try to do is point out that it’s far far more important than just toilets and changing rooms - it is fundamentally about redefining womanhood and what is means to be a woman and where the rights of women sit in a society where certain radical trans activists are determined to claim our world and our rights and our safe spaces

FarNorth Tue 21-Nov-17 17:38:20

Jess Phillips has also spoken out and has received rape threats because of it.

On Mumsnet, I saw a suggestion to Google "women killed in 2016".
The results of doing that are surprising.