Animal Rights after the Brexit Repeal Bill

Wonder how many vegans refuse medication for life threatening illnesses for fear of testing in animals

We have managed to get a few good puns into this thread,
Flogging a dead horse, dung spreading and ploughing.

None, I would think Annie

Most vaccines are grown on albumen from fertilised eggs or chicken embryos.

Good point raised there Anniebach. It would be interesting to know. And I do hope that only cosmetics, shampoos, shower gels and personal hygiene products are purchased exclusively from Beauty Without Cruelty (or similar)?

I would think so, but many cosmetics are produced in China and imported nowadays through our trade links

And those rather expensive cosmetics from France are not necessarily ethically produced.

I’m astonished that people can believe we have excellent animal welfare standards in this country. The U.K. has nearly 800 factory mega farms. The majority of chickens, ducks and turkeys are farmed in factories. The majority of breeding sows are kept in crates. A look at the Compassion in World Farming website shows the truth of farming in the U.K. as well as worldwide. We simply cannot rest on our laurels, and I still say that looking for countries that are worse than us is a distraction from doing something about what is happening here.

The answer to your question about the number of vegans who refuse medicine tested on animals is ‘quite a lot that I know of’ Annie. And as for cosmetics and household products, no vegan or vegetarian I know would dream of using products that have been tested on animals either here or abroad.

But continue to look for imaginary faults in those who try to live with different principles if it makes you feel better. T’was ever thus.

There are companies other than Beauty Without Cruelty that have excellent cruelty free credentials, although BWC is very good. As for China, I don’t know anyone who cares about animal welfare who would buy cosmetics produced or tested there.

The OP raised the question of the Repeal Bill vote not veganism .

www.gov.uk/government/news/environment-secretary-confirms-sentience-of-animals-will-continue-to-be-recognised-and-protections-strengthened-when-we-leave-the-eu

" It has been suggested that the vote last week on New Clause 30 of the EU Withdrawal Bill somehow signalled a weakening in the protection of animals - that is wrong. Voting against the amendment was not a vote against the idea that animals are sentient and feel pain - that is a misconception.

Ministers explained on the floor of the house that this Government’s policies on animal welfare are driven by our recognition that animals are indeed sentient beings and we are acting energetically to reduce the risk of harm to animals – whether on farms or in the wild. The vote against New Clause 30 was the rejection of a faulty amendment, which would not have achieved its stated aims of providing appropriate protection for animals. "
--

www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/independent-animal-sentience?utm_term=.mlBge1dln#.bvnPbJn4R

An interesting read!

My biggest concern is the ease with which misinformation spreads like farmyard manure and some are happy to believe it without querying it's factual content . This is just another case of spreading gossip, misinformation and even when 'called out' as having done so it appears some have an extremely thick skin.

It is lazy journalism and the incessant need for 'some' to jump on the bandwagon to believe 'what they want to hear' , usually playing politics.

Vaccines are given to treat serious illnesses ? I think of them as preventing illness ,

It was described on Today as fake news

The answer to your question about the number of vegans who refuse medicine tested on animals is ‘quite a lot that I know of’ Annie.

I don't know quite how I feel about that, the thought of someone refusing life-saving medicine and leaving behind a family because they will not take a medicine that has been tested on animals. A drug I take was tested on mice - is my life worth more than that of a mouse? I can't answer that but my family may be able to give their views.
Can anyone here honestly say that the life of a mouse is worth more than the life of their grandchild?

Cancer Research UK only uses animals as a last resort.

I think it’s just about impossible to develop a drug without it being tested on animals. I thought the issue was about how humanely the animals were treated during the testing process, how they were kept and looked after.

People’s beliefs can mean they refuse life saving medical treatment eg JW so that’s the same as vegans refusing drugs tested on animals. There’s also an issue about Jews and Moslems and medicines containing pig products.

Everyone has to make up their own mind if faced with this dilemma and they can do their own research on a particular drug and how it was researched and trialled then make a decision whether to accept or refuse it.

Methods are being developed that involve less use of animals in cancer research. The animals should be cared for by qualified staff, including vets, and subject to inspections.

Trials will still need to be carried out using animals for the foreseeable future, followed by clinical trials with human volunteers, often for a number of years before a drug is given its licence.

At least some have retracted their tweets/comments and to be honest I wonder about the RSPCA and playing politics at times.

At the end of the day this is just another chip paper story that was 'jumped on' by some but has in fact made the story about them and their lack of integrity in happily passing on misinformation.

S--t sticks I suppose so 'job done' in their eyes whether it is this story or others it will matter not one jot.

Usually so POGS but I think in this case it has shown up how easily people are prepared to believe what they would like to believe, and it has made the media look ridiculous.
This kind of thing will happen more and more though.
False news spreads like Chinese whispers and we should all be on high alert to it.

What concerned me most was thinking that the Govt wanted to water down EU regulations just for the sake of it. That if they started with animal rights then the next thing to be watered down would be workers' rights, maternity leave etc.

If this is not the case then I am very happy to have been proved wrong.

What do we believe if not a report in a respected national newspaper?

The whole furore has been dismissed as fake news.

It's very worrying how news and even 'non news' can be twisted and of course with social media and the public having their say, mountains can be made out of grains of sand. (A molehill would suggest there was something to build on, but often there is nothing earth-moving) Before we know it, minor things have become massive with half the country in a state of simmering outrage. All without much foundation, but that won't stop media with an agenda fanning the flames.
So much we are reading and hearing about has been distorted by a biased source. News reporting has become so flimsy with most supporters claiming to know EVERYTHING is a disaster.
My cousin's husband is a professor and he says the only way he can find peace of mind and less stress is to stop watching the news and avoid the papers and online news feeds. He says he is sticking to novels as fiction is more satisfy given the 'truth' today is hard to discern. He made me laugh.
I think he has a point!

What do we believe if not a report in a respected national newspaper?

*'most supporters' should read 'most commentators'.

their lack of integrity in happily passing on misinformation.

S--t sticks I suppose so 'job done' in their eyes whether it is this story or others it will matter not one jot.

Yep. This is the crux of the matter POGS

I don't think other EU countries take animal welfare as seriously as we do in UK. Some years ago there were new EU rules about abattoirs. Many in UK closed down because the cost of implementing them would have been too great. We owned property in Spain at the time and knew someone who worked in a abattoir there, I asked him how the new rules would affect his job -he shrugged his shoulders and said they would just ignore them. This is something which sometimes happens - UK implements the new rules and practices - other EU countries pick and choose which ones they will follow.

I live in a farming community (I am not a farmer myself) and have seen how the local farmers care for their animals. If we all stopped eating meat what do you think would happen to all the cows, sheep, pigs etc. etc.

The French are the same! Our butcher tells us that practises that are outlawed with regard to the display of meat, slaughtering, animal husbandry an a host of other regulations are just shrugged off and turned a blind eye to. French farmers are a law unto themselves and not to be provoked by government or anyone else. We have had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of a farming dispute in France!! Not a happy experience!

Day 6

Yes it is the crux of the matter and it is not restricted to just this story.

I think however Joe Public are starting to understand there is a lot of ' activism ' , ' propaganda ' muddying the waters and are starting to check facts for themselves.