Oscar Pistorius

I have not mentioned his sentence, I always question possible reasons for one person taking the life of another , Ruth Ellis was judged harshly not so much for her crime but being a peroxide blond nightclub worker, the fact the man she did murder had hit her in the stomach and caused her to miscarry was of little importance in the fifties , that she was not respectable ! Did

There is no excuse for murder except in self defence.

And Ruth Ellis was no innocent little woman. She had already aborted a child deliberately and had a penchant for violent men, not caring if they were already married or not.

Excuse and reason are not the same , a person with a serious mental illness can be a serial killer, that is a reason not an excuse. A mother with severe post natal depression can kill her child, again reason not excuse .

Really Friday, so you must be one of the very few on this forum who do not believe in a woman's right to choose and you are doing what many did in the fifties when condemning Ruth Ellis

Pistorius already had form for firing guns before he shot Reeva Steenkamp. He'd fired a gun whilst in a crowded restaurant only a month before he shot Reeva but his friend agreed to take the blame for that incident. He also fired a gun through the sun roof of a moving car. He was accustomed to using firearms and part of his trial focused on his previous incidents them.

Friday You say ^"And Ruth Ellis was no innocent little woman* You have described the the image that contributed to her conviction and execution. She was nightclub girl with violent lovers who had had an abortion. So she was already judged - as you judge her. No mercy.

Just so Elegran, because she had an abortion a miscarriage is dismissed

Of course I believe in a woman’s right to choose. What on earth has that got to do with the issue....except perhaps pick and choose which foetus to keep? You make some very stupid assumptions Anniebach - I’ve noticed this since coming in this forum that you tend to jump in with both feet.
Elegran I’ve actually read Ruth Ellis’s life story and I was only 8 years old when she was hanged, so I wasn’t buying into the image that was around at the time. Perhaps you are a lot older? Are you saying that books that were written quite a bit later were all fiction or, are you seriously suggesting that she was innocent by virtue of Blakely being a violent man? That it’s OK to shoot an abuser?

There are two issues here - one is that someone who has behaved previously in a questionable way could be judged unfairly. The other is that some people, perhaps the media, may attribute some blame to a victim for somehow precipitating their own murder.

Well it certainly sounds as if Anniebach and Elegran are saying just that Jalima1108 - that Blakely deserved to be shot by Ellis, that he precipitated his ‘own murder’ !

More than a bit rude Friday and dismissive of others’ opinions.
What difference does it make if an abused woman is “little and “innocent” or has had an abortion?” Is abuse excusable in certain scenarios? Of course not.
Anniebach’s assumptions are not * stupid* as you seem to claim and has it not occurred to you that Elegran might have justifiable foundation for her knowledge or interpretation of the Ellis case? You may not be the only person who has read Ruth Ellis’s life story, there will in any case be other sources available.

You make some very stupid assumptions Anniebach bit of a personal attack Friday, was that completely necessary?

Oh deary me, you have got your bloomers in a twist haven’t you. Other opinion are allowed you know....or do new posters have to serve their time perhaps before they can express and opinion?

I’m also quite sure that the ‘ladies’ in question are capable of speaking for themselves.

Actually Chewbacca it was because Anniebach’s assumptions were so way off simply because I expressed an opinion she dissgeeed with. Or should I just roll over and let her twist what I said.

No one has picked up my point that they are more or less saying the victim deserved to be murdered.

My first post above was to MawBroon

You have every right to post your opinions Friday, but it's not on to tell another poster that their opinions are "stupid assumptions". See the difference? It's just good manners really.

Actually Ruth Ellis wasn’t a ‘nightclub girl’ - I seem to remember she was the owner of the nightclub, or am I mistaken in this too?

Then let me substitute ‘silly’ for stupid perhaps?

Don’t you think it was rude and assumptive of Anniebach to say that I was ‘one of the very few on this forum who doesn’t believe in a woman’s right to choose’. Because I do think that’s very rude, very inaccurate and a horrible thing to say. Yet, that’s OK and good manners then?

That was to Chewbacca

I know very little about Ruth Ellis but, according to Wikipedia, she was the manager of The Little Club, not it's owner. Not that that matters one iota though. She appears to have had a chaotic life, probably because she was drawn to abusive and irresponsible men. I do think that we now have a better understanding of how sustained physical and mental abuse can trigger acts that are completely out of character. Ruth Ellis was as much a victim as Blakely was (in my opinion).

She was a victim of her circumstances I agree, though Blakely was the real victim inasmuch as he was the one murdered.

I hope you take my point Chewbacca that Anniebach went too far in making accusations and twisting my words.

I did not twist your words Friday, what did an abortion in the past have to do with him hitting her in the stomach and causing a miscarriage? No one has said he deserved to be murdered , I do say she didn't deserve to be hanged but was because of the very reasons you put forward . Can you explain why you thought the abortion was relevent to the killing?

Friday your post sounded pretty judgemental and very black and white Ruth Ellis was no innocent little woman she had already aborted a child and had a penchant for violent men Ah well that’s it then, no interest in her childhood, background or how she got into the situation she was in what had happened to her to make her use a violent act which took the guy s life pand then her own
I don’t believe anyone is born evil their genetics and their environment they are brought up in make or break the person It’s a much bigger picture than the two examples of her you have used and always worth investigating before finalising your opinion
None of this excuses a murder however it’s always worth exploring the ‘why’s’ before making a snap judgement
Of course Annie wasn’t rude to you she was just questioning your ideas and that’s allowed on here
I don’t believe in hanging but that’s a whole new story to chew over

You may be correct that her previous abortions had nothing to do with the killing though she used the miscarriage brought on by a punch in her defence at her trial. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking that she had decided she didn’t want any more children. My point still stands that she was not some innocent little ‘night club girl’ but someone who knew her own mind and was in fact the club manager.

The motive, from reading the trial transcripts, was jealousy as she thought her lover was seeing someone else. After she'd brought him down by her first two shots, she stood over him and emptied the gun into him, the final shot being close enough to leave powder burns.

I don’t believe in the death sentence either. And in fact I love that song ‘He Had it Coming’ rom Chicago, which in some ways is very reminiscent of this case.

However that does not give you, or anybody, the right to make the assumption that I do not believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion and you are way, way off track there and completely out of orde.