The Irish question

So where does that leave the border question and what are the implications for the rest of the UK?

This is on Twitter
@tconnellyRTE
BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews

The Irish question is obviously a huge stumbling block. So are the 3 million EU-nationals living in the UK. I await with trepidation what the Government will finally propose for us. I know that TM has SAID that we are all safe and welcome to stay. I would like to know on what conditions. Verbal reassurances are meaningless.
The Referendum was a gamble David Cameron was convinced he would win. I'm sure Leave voters are on the whole good and caring people but they were conned into believing that all the ills of the UK stem from the EU. It has been suggested on GN that not even Leavers believed that extra money would be pumped into NHS. I thinkt many did believe it. Voting to leave was an emotional reaction. Wind people up, give them false promises, present them with a Yes or No vote and many will behave like children.

One wise man wrote...”Why go on further with confusing voice...
The rule is, never give a child a choice.”

whitewave

I don't know is my answer but I don't make wild guesses either. I simply ask how there can be a seperation , cherry picking by a country that does not comply with the rules of the Four Freedoms / Pillars if a country either is or is not a member of the EU/EEA/EFTA .

The current thread running re the EEA cannot be dismissed and I thought you could enlighten me as you have raised the EEA as a prospect again on this thread.

Indeed!! It's ALL so - hypocritical?! The only thing I regret is not abstaining. If asked again, I most certainly wouldn't repeat that mistake.

WhenIwas

" I hope the Irish stick up for themselves ".

There is an irony in that statement when the Irish held a referendum over the Lisbon Treaty they voted NO and yet that democratic vote was not accepted and on the second referendum voted YES. I wonder where we would be if the Irish had stuck up for themselves and not only them the UK too in forcing the government to give us even a referendum.

As we know the UK was not allowed a vote on the Lisbon Treaty by Blair and Gordon Brown although there were calls for one, again ironically by the Lib Dems and when Parliament voted Jeremy Corbyn I believe voted NO to the Lisbon Treaty.

Brown of course signed the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 and was mocked for the manner with which he carried out the signing . Parliament ratified the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. Open to be challenged if I am mistaken.

Many would say the way Blair and Brown handled the Lisbon Treaty it reignited the eurosceptic mood and oddly those voices who were so sceptic of the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 are only a few years later forgetful of what they said and thought at the time.

That's politics for you.

I don’t know pogs what do you think?

So GG and whitewave do you think JunkerTusk/Merkel et al will allow the island of Ireland to NOT have to abide by the Four Pillars / Four Freedoms of the EU/EEA/EFTA ?

Do you think that EU will insist on Northern Ireland remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union as per the current Treaties ?

If the latter was the case do you think that would create any problems for Northern Ireland trading with the rest of the UK.?

gg that would be my preference -EEA

I think it is much more likely that we will be in something like the EEA than have a border in the sea.

First the biggest difficulty was the money, then the people (I am personally not convinced that is sorted) and then Ireland. The next difficulty is going to be freedom of movement.

We know a percentage - possibly a large percentage voted to leave because of this but that, by no means indicates that a majority did. I will have to be sorted so it is workable.

Possible Irish border in the sea then?

DUP will get hysterical. It will please Sinn Fein though.

Just agreeing, wheniwasyourage.

I hope the Irish stick up for themselves and so do the other 26 and we stop this absurd Brexit before it happens. Just saying.

That was one of the original Leave reasons NfkDumpling I wonder why they ignored it then but have changed their mind now?

Every EU countries economy is growing faster than the U.K. so not quite so much in the do do that we are in and sinking fast.

Funny you should mention stability, one reason given was the way so many EU countries are in the do-do. Debt, unemployment, and even Germany is having trouble forming a government.

The Remainers I know think the country is touched with insanity.

NfkDumpling what sort of people do you meet? Someone who voted remain because they favoured stability but looks at the current shambles and now want to leave? It sounds not just unreasonable but positively barking!

50% want a second referendum because they feel they were not given enough information the first time.
I've never met a single remainer who has changed his or her mind.

Incredible as it may seem WW, I have actually met quite a few people who voted remain because it was the status quo and better the devil you know, who having thought it through more, now wish they'd voted leave. But you won't believe that.

We can’t allow such a generation destroying decision to once again be at the vagaries of a protest vote. To use a favoured phrase of the Maybot - nothing will have changed for those folk left behind- parliament must vote on the final outcome

I don't think we will get another vote but I trust that Parliament will when we know what 'leaving' actually means.

Just about everyone on Gransnet has a vote, though, lemon.
Are we not allowed to say what we think about anything?
If that's what you think, why do you bother being on the politics threads?

No, NFK. I am suggesting that now we know more about the consequences of our decision, we are allowed to change our minds.
You can't say you have learnt nothing new since the referendum about the difficulties of leaving the EU, and the problems being stored up for our children and grandchildren.

It's not wishful thinking at all, lemon. Surveys are not wishful thinking.

It’s simply wishful thinking to imagine that vast swathes of the country who voted Leave now regret it.
The way the EU are behaving has reinforced my view that leaving this arrogant and corrupt organisation is the right one.
Armchair pundits on GN cannot solve the question of the Irish problem, in fact it’s all down to Eire, although I would think that in private the EU negotiators will put some pressure on them, because they need our money.
The government have said no to hard borders, ( UK) and nobody in Ireland wants it, so whatever is left, probably
Tech online for goods will be the answer, but in the end , yes, we do have to leave it for the government to sort out since Gransnet is not running anything ( except chat!)