The Irish question

I listen on Sunday mornings to an Irish politics chat show on RTE. This week they were running through the English press headlines, especially the Murdoch owned ones, and commenting on the careless attitude of the English government towards the border problem and the rude way this was being expressed. For those who don't know, the Sun recently ran a headline telling Veradka to 'shut his gob and grow up'.

A friend who is Irish born but spent most of her life here and so has a slightly plummy English accent was recently visiting Cork and came back shocked saying she has been on the receiving end of hostility the like of which reminded her of the 1970s.

Four centuries of English interference and domination in Ireland will never be completely forgotten and the question of the border, the relationship between the Irish Republic as an EU country and the implications for trade the UK cannot just be shrugged away. Not least because someone is going to have to pay for the installation of some kind of border control. The whole business is a sorry mess and May is cornered by her dodgy deal with the DUP.

That looks an interesting article dj and I will look it up. No simple solution I am afraid. And, Azie09, you are so right when you say it is all a sorry mess. Too many missed opportunities to put it right. The peace deal looks like it is sailing serenely on the top of the water but really, like the proverbial duck, it is paddling madly underneath.

Can we not stay in the customs union?
I know Theresa May has explicitly ruled that out, but it seems the only solution to the Irish Problem is either to stay in the single market or some sort of EU customs union.
Is that a feasible solution?

TM doesn't want to mostly - that seems to be enough for her.

I thought I'd made up the line about Ireland having to pay (just like Mexico paying for Trump's wall), but no, someone else has said the same thing and actually means it.

The pro-Brexit Labour MP Kate Hoey told the Today programme that, if a border does have to go up between Northern Ireland and Ireland after Brexit, Ireland will have to pay for it. She said "We’re not the ones who are going to be putting up the physical border. If it ends up with a no deal we won’t be putting up the border - they’ll have to pay for it, because it doesn’t need to happen."

You couldn't make it up!

I read a lot of things these days and have to go back to them because I can't believe what I'm reading, thinking it's false memory on my part of false news. I agree, you really couldn't make it up .

the "british" (ENGLISH) government at Westminster has no interest in Ireland..or Scotland .Its all about what the english public voted for ...as per usual it must be said.Ireland should be a united country ,free to choose its own fate ..in or out of the EU.Nobody wants to see the return of the troubles which are always simmering beneath the surface in some areas...and the Tory DUP pact isn't helpful to the peace process that appeared to be working

You're right, the North and South of Ireland should be reunited. One insurmountable problem is that the majority of the North want to remain within the UK, also the South isn't that keen either! Frankly if we could lose the baggage of Northern Ireland and Scotland, England would cheer and be the better nation for it!

Northern Ireland is part of the UK and wants to continue that way.
It has already been said, many times that the UK government will not be putting up any hard borders.
If Eire calls technological online checks ‘hard borders’ ( which they are threatening to do) then all I can say is, how very Irish!

I understood that the UK border checks in Dover etc, are mostly done on-line and automatically and that only about 1 in 10 are physically checked and that this method would continue when (if ever) we’re outside the EU. Most border checks are only done to catch illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. Technology is now at such a state that physical hard borders really aren’t as imperative. Yes, locals will cross the border to top up petrol on whichever side is cheapest, but that will happen anyway, having to scan a passport through a machine in the same way as going through a toll bridge isn’t going to make that much difference. I don’t think a hard border will mean a Berlin Wall or two lines of razor wire with a mine field between. At the moment there’s a lot of scare mongering, posturing and threats. Eire needs to export to the UK through Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland doesn’t actually do much trade to the south.

I haven't heard anyone come up with any suggestion that sounds in any way possible. I did hear a clip earlier today of Kate Hoey saying the Irish would have to build any boarder! Can we do any more damage to how we are seen abroad?

The simplest thing would be to stay in 'a' single market and customs union if not 'the' single market. What a mess. We can blame leavers and/or stayers but it is Parliament we give power to and Parliament who are making a complete horror show of this. That is nothing new, they did the same by offering a referendum in the first place instead of earning their pay and showing some leadership.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ireland-border-brexit-eu-support-theresa-may-concessions-block-talks-negotiations-simon-coveney-a8078116.html

When Corbyn becomes dictator we can expect a referendum in Ireland for a united ireland, comrade Corbyn and McDonald has been supporters for years

'Frankly if we could lose the baggage of Northern Ireland and Scotland, England would cheer and be the better nation for it!' disgusting comment....

...which sums up the mentality of leave voters ...

...in fact, I can't believe I've read that....

Thank you Tegan2 for standing up for Northern Ireland and Scotland. The people of both those countries have contributed to all aspects of UK life and do not deserve to be dismissed like this. It beggars belief that such a comment was posted.

Well, it is an option. Not one I’d want to see but there are many in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales who do want it. Luckily not a majority. But it is an option and I think (hope) that talk like this will help unite us.

Doesn't the possible break up of the UK worry some people?

Frankly if we could lose the baggage of Northern Ireland and Scotland, England would cheer and be the better nation for it!

Brexit is certainly taking us back in time at an alarming rate. Have you got anything nasty to say about Wales nellie, just to complete the set?

I dread the prospect of being trapped in England with you Little Englanders.

Wales is a country of the U.K. too

I thought before the referendum GG, that a Leave vote might see the break up of the UK. Quite a sad mess really.

I don't suppose Leave voters want it to happen, but at the very least, Brexit is dividing the UK and we could easily end up losing Northern Ireland and then Scotland.

Wales is a country of the U.K. too

We all know that, Ab. I'm not sure why you needed to remind us.

I don't suppose Leave voters want it to happen

I don't think Leave voters care very much about anything apart from shaking the dust of the vile EU from their feet.

They certainly don't care about turning our country into an irrelevant laughing stock for the rest of the world and an opportunity for disaster capitalists to make a killing.

Maisie, is that the royal 'we' or have you been appointed as spokesperson for the forum, if the latter you do not speak for me

I am sure this will be seen as project fear but if we loose Scotland and Ireland I have a feeling the North of England may be thinking about where they belong too. Woad any one?