The Irish question

ps in ref. to this topic - the Irish question and its complications was one of the things never mentioned.

You are all getting so over excited and emotional about the Irish border question, as if you yourselves are required to come up with the answers.

I really do object to other people reprimanding me, on an open forum, for the level of excitement or emotion that I use in regard to a particularly difficult part of leaving the EU. I do not want to leave; I did not want to leave. I am entitled to be as emotional as I choose about something I do not believe to be a good thing.

Why is saying the EU want a united nation, a new country, Project Fear Maisie? It's never been a secret that that's been the aim from the outset. Even Churchill wanted it (only fewer nations). One currency, one defence force, no borders, legislation and taxation from Brussels with individual government or assemblies as we have in the UK at present.

Do any other countries have a border with the EU?
What systems do they use to manage their borders?
Why are their systems not appropriate for the Irish border?

This is not an issue unique to the UK.

Like being metaphorically patted on the head.

I have been reading today about the number of people who have been told to leave the country since the Brexit vote.

One woman who moved here from Jamaica to live with her grandmother when she was 10. She was sent to Yarls Wood and then to Heathrow detention centre.
She's never thought of herself as anything but British.

One family where the mother was going to be sent back to Australia as her visa was about to run out. Her husband is British, they have lived here since 2014. They have a son who has a rare disease, and needs looking after by his mother. His father is an emergency doctor.
They were told the mother could do nothing for the boy that the NHS couldn't do!
Fortunately she got a reprieve because her MP is Jeremy Hunt.

A couple, one Brazilian, one British, who have spent thousands and years on trying to get right to remain in this country for the Brazilian. They got the reverse in a week in Brazil.
They have now decided to move to Brazil permanently as they feel unwanted here, which is a shame as they are both in the medical profession; Brazil's gain.

I get very excited and emotional about problems like these, as well as the insurmountable problem of the Irish border.
I know people who move back and forward between Ireland, Spain, Norway and Denmark quite regularly with their various companies, taking their families and living very good lives.
They wouldn't dream of coming to the UK any more.

I suspect people were being 'asked' to leave before the Brexit vote DJ.

Primrose has asked a relevant question - How do other countries with land borders to the EU manage their borders?

Check Norway/ Sweden.

I'm afraid I am not surprised by what you have read Jen. They are going for easy but inappropriate cases so that they can claim what appear to be 'good' statistics.

I'm not quite sure why the deportation of people from Jamaica, Australia and Brazil has anything to do with Brexit, however wrong these instances are.

I do know a couple, one Brazilian, one English and they can live permanently in neither country together, so I am glad that the person you know are able to live together in Brazil.

sorry, not person I meant couple

I get very excited and emotional about problems like these, as well as the insurmountable problem of the Irish border.

The sentence you omitted to read, Jalima.

Well, Norway and Sweden seem to manage ok. Even before they were in the Schengen area it wasn't necessary to produce a passport, and checks were sporadic. It says on Wiki. And now we have automatic electronic cargo checks and automatic number plate recognition it's even easier. So that's all right then. It can work. Yippee! (Just need to persuade the Irish!)

It's not alright. Norway is in the European Economic Area (EEA), which means that they are signed up to the four freedoms and are subject to EU legislation and regulation in the relevant areas. This is how they manage a frictionless border with Sweden.

The government has decided that we are not going to be part of the EEA post Brexit,so we cannot run the same border arrangements as those between Norway and Sweden.

Without being in the EEA the UK becomes a 'third country' and subject to a hard border between it and the EU. This appears to be legally unavoidable.

I don't think the electronic solution is possible to set up in the short time we have left before March 2019, but I'm not absolutely certain..

Is this what Leavers voted for?

Primrose- Switzerland does, and with several EU countries- but firstly it is part of Schengen, and secondly it has reciprocal agreements on so many things with the EU...which the UK won't have, as the UK has never been part of Schengen (one of the many things the UK- unlike any other EU country - had been able to negotiate - like not adopting the Euro, etc)... BECAUSE those reciprocal agreements are based on FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE which Brexit refuses.

An electronic solution does not check on people/passengers, their legal status, nationality, or terrorism, or goods carried, legal or illegal !!!

Why is saying the EU want a united nation, a new country, Project Fear Maisie? It's never been a secret that that's been the aim from the outset.

Please don't keep trotting out that one, Nfk. Just because 'some' people wanted it (and Churchill was very much a product of the English colonial system which parcelled out countries left right and centre according to what the English thought was best, so his 70 year old 'wishes' are way out of date now) doesn't mean to say that they'll achieve it. You forget that the EU comprises 27/28 sovereign nations; all proud of their nationhood and culture; all able to exercise a veto; and all highly unlikely to agree to the formation of a European Superstate. It's as much 'project fear' as the non existent 'European Army' and Turkey imminently becoming a member of the EU.

The EU shares borders with 20 countries (according to Wiki). Not all of them are part of the EEA or Schengen.

primrose65
Russia
Ukraine
Albania
Moldova
Serbia
Turkey
Macedonia
The lesser developed countries do have holdups because they haven't invested in 'new' technology.
Some just want to e bloody awkward (Serbia)
The border between turkey and Bulgaria was ok but the 2 countries have a dispute with permits.

The lesser developed countries do have holdups because they haven't invested in 'new' technology.

But we haven't invested in it yet, either, Petra.

The trouble is the 'some' people are Messrs Schulz, Juncker, et al.

I'd disagree Maizie. We have biometrics already for people at airports, e-gates at Heathrow and I'm sure there's plenty of analytics running for passenger risk assessments. No idea how far we are with implementing the EU Smart Border program though, but I'm sure we could keep up with them on that.

Thanks Petra

MaizieD
I think all our large ports might disagree with you.

Like we've managed to sort out the NHS system and the Universal credit system?
How much money have we wasted on those electronic systems?

I don't see how they are comparable Jen - what are the similarities?