Party leaders

If you don't know about Momentum why make a silly statement about them?
You could have found out the same way I did, instead of telling lies about the group.

Just in case you want to join, Annie.

join.peoplesmomentum.com/

And you have to be a Labour party member.

If I wanted to move that far left I may as well join the Communist Party, no thank you , I will leave it to the Corbyn fanatics

I find it very odd that people are so willing to post about how dreadful Momentum is and yet don't know simple things like who can be a member. Makes you think that most of what they say is actually just made up and based on wild imaginings.

I did not tell I lie I didn't know they had changed their rules this year, I fully accept I made an error but withdraw your accusation that I told lies.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/10/momentum-shakeup-will-force-members-to-join-labour

"4 weeks after JC was elected, Momentum was formed, to try to appeal to the very grass roots that JC was talking about. It's constitution is to support the LP, and in order to become a member of Momentum you must also be a member of the LP."

From a thread started by whitewave, which you joined in, Annie.
That was from the OP.
Momentum right from the start said that in order to be a member you also had to be a member of the Labour party.
They did not change their constitution at all.

Actually, you are right, they did change it, but you still knew that you had to be a member of the labour party to join momentum because you joined in on debates on here to call it a party within a party.
If the members are a party within a party, they must be members of the outside party as well.
In fact POGS put it in capital letters for you and others to join in on slagging off Momentum a few times.

So you made an error or lied Jen?

Where did the idea come from that the current LP is the 'far-left' other than from the leftovers of the 'Reds under the Beds era.

The policies of the LP are not as 'far-left' as Norway and I don't hear the right-wing papers or the far right in the Conservative Party calling Norway 'far-left'. Social democracy should not be feared. It is really rather sad that people who joined and became MPs for the LP are now not recruiting people with their view of socialism (although I seem to remember they are a little allergic to that word) but are undermining the party they belong to. Their attitude seems lazy, undemocratic and show a sense of entitlement.

Of course the Twenty-two committee has more power than momentum; they are MPs. They can vote down or threaten to vote down what the government wants to do if they don't like it. I find it anti-democratic. Momentum members, on the other hand, are prepared to put their money and their energies into getting Labour members into Parliament as MPs - where they will have no influence over them whatsoever. It is not unreasonable to question what the values are of these members of the public before they support them in there efforts to become or return as MPs.

I realise I feel much the same. As a Social Democrat I do not see myself as a socialist (very different beast) but I do support what the LP is putting forward at the moment. However, if they ceased to major on social issues I would not necessarily continue to consider voting for them or supporting them in any way and I might well write to my local LP candidate asking questions about what they support. The members of Momentum have just the same democratic right to do that in my opinion.

A couple of sensible and well thought through posts gg

Angela Raynor (shadow education) is quoted this morning as saying she won't sign her loyalty to JC as Momentum are suggesting. She's one of the good young Labour MP's from a more traditional Labour background than some. She says she will represent her constituents and vote with her conscience. Good enough.

GG - your comments about Norway confuse me - the Prime Minister of Norway is a Conservative - first elected in 2013 and retaining power in the September 2017 election - so of course the newspapers & Conservatives don't call Norway "far left" - that's because it's not.

OFFS I though we had established that it's about supporting candidates and not MPs. You do wonder sometimes if there are Labour MPs who are more interested n getting their names in the paper than in actiually getting the truth out there!

Well, if Labour MP’s are saying this, it shows what they think of the whole idea and Momentum whitewave and I admire Raynor for saying it, she had a difficult start in life so nobody could accuse her of being a champagne socialist.

The ‘ordinary’ members of Momentum are likely to be idealistic people who think that the Labour Party is going to make life wonderful for the whole country, but the ‘executive’ are something else entirely.Their hopes are pinned on getting Corbyn into power and a radical far left movement going, they are not interested in the Labour Party as such.It would be naive not to recognise that.

Oh, sorry, it’s trisher not whitewave ( hard to spot the difference sometimes.)

What a charmer you are lemon

You have the same views ........ that’s all.

Actually whitewave and durhamjen you have both on previous threads stated you 'know nothing about Momentum' and yet have posted past and present about Momentum.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

What a very silly post pogs dear oh dear.

How on earth does that progress the debate?

What debate? A debate is discussing different views not calling people liars or dismissing their opinions as very silly.

GG

"Of course the Twenty-two committee has more power than momentum; they are MPs. They can vote down or threaten to vote down what the government wants to do if they don't like it. I find it anti-democratic. "

Who said the 1922 was less powerful than Momentum?

Any parties MP'scan vote down or threaten to vote down what the government wants to do if they don't like it, whether the government is in opposition or their own. Do you believe this has not happened to Labour and Conservative governments past and present?

If you find MP's voting against their own government 'undemocratic' are you saying MP's who say voted against their government say on Iraq , the EU were being 'undemocratic'?

I have posted on the 1922 committee not in defence of it but sticking to the facts of how Parliament works and trying to explain why Momentum is a different entity to Parliamentary MP's irrespective of which party they belong to but it seems I am failing.

Obviously some are happy to have an organisation stipulate who and what 'candidates' standing for parliament and Councils must pledge Alliegence to.

There is a name for that.

Are you seriously suggesting that Angela Raynor is more interested in getting her name in the paper than anything else?
This issue is of interest and I'm assuming she was asked a question and answered it honestly. She's a relatively new MP with imo good credentials so far. It's relevant to me that had she been a prospective candidate now, she may have lost out because she would take what I see as a principled stance.

I'm confused. Angela Raynor isn't a candidate, she's an MP. She isn't being asked to sign a loyalty pledge. It's only prospective candidates.

Have you a link to that story, Iam64?

whitewave

"How on earth does that progress the debate?"

Simply put it doesn't.

No more than posters who have stated they nothing of Momentum on other threads telling another poster " If you don't know about Momentum why make a silly statement about them?"