Has the Conservative Party lost all sense of competence

Reports I have read over the years do not equate rickets with poverty these days, more with over-conscientious parents.

Not conscientious enough to learned something about the best source of vitamin D.

I reckon reducing the incidence of TB to less than 2% (2% of what, btw? The whole population?) is worth celebrating. All the Brontë kids died of it... well, the ones that survived into adulthood. I thnk the two oldest died of measles or something at school.

The incidence of TB was increasing last I heard. I forget why. Lack of vaccination?

Baggs try reading the thread
Jalima quoted
the rate of TB in the non-UK born population in 2016 was 49.4 per 100,000, compared with 51.3 per 100,000 in 2015, and remained 15 times higher than in the UK born population, with 74% of TB cases born abroad
That's the 'reduction' she's celebrating.
As for rickets, yes there were instances in well off children presenting almost 5 years ago because of excessive use of sun block. That has been almost completely stopped as advice to mums changed. The latest presentations are in poor children.
Try this www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/23/poorer-children-disproportionately-need-hospital-treatment

the rate of TB in the non-UK born population in 2016 was 49.4 per 100,000, compared with 51.3 per 100,000 in 2015, and remained 15 times higher than in the UK born population, with 74% of TB cases born abroad

Thanks, T. I had a feeling it had something to do with immigrants. A reduction is still a reduction and worth celebrating, especially if the reasons why TB is so high in immigrants are complex, which I expect they are.

Having scanned the Guardian article, I can't say I'm surprised that kids from poor families tend to have more health issues than those from richer. That's always been the case. Not that I'm making excuses. Obviously it would be better if this could be sorted but it's not something new caused by the current government.

And yet when we were a poorer country with less money circulating, fewer millionaires and with a huge outstanding debt we managed to almost eradicate rickets, cure TB cases and develop a vaccination programme to help wipe it out. You can't just blame immigrants for the increase in TB although arguably if we really helped by supplying a vaccination programme to countries where it is endemic that problem would be dealt with. TB is a disease of poverty
it thrives in poor living conditions and sub standard housing. That was one of the reasons for building council houses and giving people decent places to live.

But it is the responsibility of this government while they are the government Baggs.

"Despite many people believing TB has been eradicated in the UK it never went away. In fact, the UK experienced a two-decade-long rise in cases from the mid-1980s. It is only in the last few years that the UK has begun to match the global trend for falling rates of TB, with affected individuals dropping from a peak of 8,919 cases in 2011 to around 6,000 cases annually today.

In 2015, the government launched the Collaborative TB Strategy for England which set out the steps required to achieving the ambition of a year-on-year decrease in TB incidence, a reduction in health inequalities and, ultimately, the elimination of TB as a public health problem in England.

In England in 2016:

There were 5,664 TB cases
39% of cases were in London
74% of cases were among non-UK born people
3.8% of people with TB were also living with HIV
11.1% of people with TB had at least one social risk factor for TB (a history of alcohol or drug misuse, homelessness or imprisonment)
31% of people with pulmonary TB waited over four months from onset of symptoms to beginning treatment.

Source: tbalert.org

Not conscientious enough to learned something about the best source of vitamin D.

But so conscientious that they slathered their children in high factor suncream for fear of them developing skin cancer - some schools advised that this should be done before school and at each play time (due to the non-touching policy children applied their own or children were advised to put it on other children). I'm not sure what the policy is now but certainly when DD was at primary school this was the case.

Presumably, thinking that rickets had all but been eradicated, the government of the day (whichever it was) did not make the addition of Vitamin D to such foods as margarine compulsory.

As I have said, perhaps it now needs to be added to a staple food like bread. I don't suppose there are many children who enjoy foods rich in vitamin D such as oily fish, even if the parents can afford to buy it.
Although my DGC do, their friends seem disinclined to eat it.

You're right Jalima. “The many hours children spend indoors playing computer games or watching television may be to blame for a resurgence of rickets,” The Times reported. Several newspapers also covered this research on vitamin D deficiency in the UK.
The news stories are based on a narrative review of the evidence for the diagnosis and management of vitamin D deficiency. Many newspapers focused on a single quote by the lead author that “kids are staying indoors playing on computers rather than going outside to kick a ball around”.
However, it is important to highlight that this is not new research, but the opinion of these authors. The review did not look at the use of TV or computer games, and does not provide any new evidence of a link between these and rickets.
The authors highlight the importance of sunlight to ensure that the body has enough vitamin D, but they also mention other risk factors for vitamin D deficiency, one of which is having dark skin. As the researchers point out, it is possible that the increase in cases of rickets reflects the changing ethnic mix in the UK.
The increasing numbers of children with rickets in the UK suggests that more needs to be done in terms of prevention. How this will be done will need further research and discussion. Advice about sensible sun exposure remains the same."

Source: NHS.uk 2010 and so will quite possibly be inadmissible.

Well, just common sense really I would have thought. (I don't read the Times).

But, of course, if some people wish to lay all this at the feet of the Conservative Government, then nothing will convince them otherwise Chewbacca.
Perhaps each immigrant to the UK should have provided a certificate of immunisation before being allowed in - or compulsorily vaccinated at their port of entry.

My word, what an outcry that would have caused had any government, Labour or Tory, suggested it.

I wasn't blaming immigrants for being ill, T, just acknowledging that for the most part they were the unfortunates who were suffering the disease. No doubt for complex reasons that were not our government's fault.

GG, agreed about it being govt responsibility to do something about it. I don't think anyone was questioning that.

the rate of TB in the non-UK born population in 2016 was 49.4 per 100,000, compared with 51.3 per 100,000 in 2015, and remained 15 times higher than in the UK born population, with 74% of TB cases born abroad

Logically then, if anyone immigrating into the UK had had to produce proof of vaccination, compulsorily vaccinated or tested for TB and treated before entry then the rate would have decreased very significantly.

Countries with the highest rates of TB:

Country HIV negative TB Mortality HIV positive TB Incidence
Angola 18,000 18,000
Bangladesh 66,000 500
Brazil 5,400 11,000
Cambodia 3,200 1,300

"Infection is possible anywhere, but tuberculosis is especially prevalent in sub-Saharan Africa and in Southeast Asia. The disease is more common in Eastern Europe than Western Europe, and Scandinavia has the lowest number of cases in the world."

QED. Poverty is pretty complex.

I fully acknowledge that there was a rise in rickets in 2010 because of the over use of sun block. Advice about the use of sun block was then changed and mums, nurseries and schools were given new instructions. If GNers are unaware of the new instructions mums certainly aren't. But the rise in rickets continues. And it is now presenting in poorer children. Yes some sort of supplement in food would be good. But a better solution would be ensuring that children are well fed and have a good diet. It has been done before.
As far as the use of hospitals is concerned there used to be school clinics where children from poor families were given advice, minor injuries were dressed and hygiene was demonstrated. It would lift the pressure on hospitals if something similar were introduced.
Jalima1108 where do you suppose a poor refugee from a war torn country would find either a place to be vaccinated or the money to pay for it? You couldn't "compulsorily vaccinate at the point of entry" the TB vaccine process is long and complicated it requires both time and supervision. (Don't you remember the tests and the wait?)

Only about 10% of our vitamin D is from food, and 90% or so is manufactured from sunlight on the skin. Perhaps we are seeing an increase in rickets now because of the over-use of suncream over the past few years (as recommended) and now that this has been realised the trend is reversing.
This is not to dispute the fact that the diets of some children (not just the poor in fact) are less than adequate.

The BCG vaccine was not offered automatically after 2005 and only offered to those considered to be at risk.

You couldn't "compulsorily vaccinate at the point of entry"
Not everyone would need the vaccination and I did not make that as a serious suggestion it would not have been feasible and there would probably have been an outcry against people's human rights.

Successive Governments seem to have made decisions/offered public health advice which may have led to the increase in these diseases.

or the money to pay for it?
Why would he or she be expected to pay for it? A programme should have been up and running and free at the point of delivery knowing that TB was prevalent in some of the countries of origin of immigrants. Not just now that we have this problem but probably over the last couple of decades as sometimes it can take years to develop.

We don't get long sunny summers , children do not play outdoors very much, stuck to their game machines , I have always been a bit low in vitamin D because I have to avoid direct sun, prickly heat! So I remain 'pale and interesting ' but even indirect sun light helps

I think many of us are low on Vitamin D, sometimes I take supplement in the winter but then worry about getting kidney stones!

Perhaps we should bring back cod liver oil for all..

all children, posted before I finished

If politicians are the cause of all health problems explains why I developed acid reflux ?

Jalima1108 you really are an expert at taking a bit of something and quoting it out of context to use in some weird argument you seem to be having with yourself. It's the poor countries refugees and immigrants come from who can't afford a vaccination programme- hence TB is endemic in those countries.
Vaccination requires you first identify those who have been exposed to the disease and have succesfully developed their own immunity. As it is a disease that thrives in poor housing conditions and in communities with poor diets the better fed and housed a person the more likely they are to fight off the disease.
As for the Vitamin D argument. I've dealt with the sun block. Diet is vital and there are children today developing rickets which hadn't been seen for almost 40 years and which many doctors were unable to diagnose in 2010. Things have moved on since then. They know what it looks like now.
As for cod liver oil- don't you know cod stocks are decreasing?