That’s not a brexiter that’s a rebel who believes in democracy

I am very happy to see the Merkel and Tusk have fallen out over the migrant 'problem'
Tusk has given in to the Visegrad group. He has accepted that they won't take their share of migrants. Angela isn't happy, I don't think many Germans will be either.
They're both between a rock and a hard place now, aren't they.

petra

I noticed on Aljazeera they mentioned a demonstration outside the EU over 'Migration' , it is interesting to see where this story runs.

whitewave

I have asked this question several times on various threads but as you consider the talk of an EU Army is 'fictional ' can I ask what you think Jean Claude Junker means when he says in his State of the Union Address:-

'And I want us to dedicate further efforts to defence matters. A new European Defence Fund is in the offing. As is a Permanent Structured Cooperation in the area of defence. By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European Defence Union. We need it. And NATO wants it.'

What is a a fully-fledged European Defence Union ?

As petra has mentioned PESCO what do you think is meant when it states :-

'The 25 participating Member States also agreed a Declaration announcing the preparation of first collaborative projects in areas including the setting up of an EU medical command, military mobility, maritime surveillance, and cyber security.'?

What is now commonly viewed and reported on as an EU Army.

Nato has an army. Is that wrong?

www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2017-12-13a.542.2

Chris Leslie's debate, whitewave.

Thanks jen; the written word doesn't do justice to it, though; he and Tom Brake (?) were amazing!

I agree, Tegan. I felt sorry for the two Tories trying to keep the fort. Written word doesn't do justice to the sneering, either, does it?

durhamjen

"Nato has an army. Is that wrong?"

What a peculiar comment! NATO is an intergovernmental military alliance . In other words an Army , a Defence Union, that is it's purpose.

So no it is not wrong. Besides which has anybody said an EU Army / EU Defence Union would be 'wrong'.?

What is ' wrong ' is the continued refusal to accept that an EU Army/ EU Defence, whatever anybody wants to call it, is a 'myth' a 'fiction' and that has been stated by posters such as yourself since the Referendum threads began . Some have referenced the idea as propaganda/fake news/project fear used by Leave campaigners.

A further point/question:

What happens to NATO if countries such as Spain, Germany, France have to dedicate a percentage of GDP to NATO plus provide the finance to support an EU Army EU Defence Union. Will it eventually prove successful or could it mean the EU countries will have to decide to pull out of NATO because of cost . In other words could NATO eventually be weakened by the EU ? I say pull out of NATO because they sure as hell will struggle to pull out of any agreement involving the EU enshrinement of 'Ever Closer Union' .

What rubbish, POGS.
All those countries already have armies.
May persuaded trump to stay in NATO. Why would she do that, then withdraw from it, whether as part of the EU or not?

Why are you talking about May pulling out of NATO?

Integrating defences is not an army - cooperating with each other is not an army -

Having a united front against potential aggression like Russia seems eminently sensible to me.

Oh dear

The former disgraced minister Fox jetted off to Beunos Aires this week to a WTO meeting to set up some potential trade deals.

It did not go well - ended in dead.lock.

Fox return with his tail between his legs.

I see the Electorial Comission is investigating the money dolled out out by Cambridge Analytica, and given to the leave campaign.

And really worth noting - the directors have been called before the House Intelligence Committee as part of its probe into Russian interference in the us election.

Jonathon Lis -twitter

“Never before has a world power chosen to amputate various limbs in front of its horrified friends. Half heartedly glue some of them back together again at the friends behest, and reserved them again immediately afterwards.

Nor has it reacted with such fury at some of its parliamentarians who offered bandages”

Times is saying that Maybot is dropping the Brexit date amendment. She will lose that one if it goes to a vote.

Steve Bullock a former U.K. negotiator with the e u

“Can anyone belief that the U.K. government is not mishandling Brexit.

18 months after the ref. And 9 months after invoking article 50, they have still not had or agreed a substantive discussion in cabinet over the future of the U.K. “

The idea of EU army marching into unwilling countries is an example of the Brexit “project fear”along with 60million Turks arriving tomorrow etc. The UN also has a peace keeping force which could be described as an “army” btw.

So as we already have our own armies, the UN army, the NATO army, why is the idea of an EU army so frightening to people who like all things military?
Personally, I don't want any of them, but see the need for peacekeeping forces while there is so much warlike behaviour in the world.
A shame, really.
60 million Turks would be scary, particularly as it's nearly the whole population of the UK. Where would we put them all? Probably have to send them all back to Turkey, as it would have lost three quarters of its population if they all came here.
Must be one of those other stories that Brexiteers never really believed, along with the £350 million a week for the NHS.

Day 15 of the advent calender.

The economy over the next 5 years has been downgraded to an historic low

The institute for government questions whether the government understand what it has signed up to. It thinks not.

An interesting article, whitewave. I hadn't realised Larry Elliott was a Brexiteer.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/12/15/is-this-a-viable-brexit-alternative-for-labour/

Gosh, he certainly is, dj! And he writes for the Guardian...

I like the response that says that if we have a hard brexit, we'll only need one election, then Labour can do what it wants and renationalise everything. The EU will not be able to stop them.

It was said on TWIP last night after Queasy Time that brexit was sucking the life out of British ; none of the issues that resulted in the leave vote are being addressed, because brexit itself is taking up everyone's time and energy.

That's true, Tegan. That's why Hunt can do as he wants about/with the NHS.