That’s not a brexiter that’s a rebel who believes in democracy

Looking at the Paul Dacre evil headlines, Brendan Cox does well to remind us that Fascism in Europe never started with mass killings. It started with the normalisation of hatred.

We must never forget that and utterly despise what Dacre and Farage are trying to do.

Varian I think it would help the Lib Dems if they could find another new leader. Vince Cable is still tainted by the sale of the Royal Mail.
I'm not a Lib Dem but I rather liked Tim Farron and felt he was unfairly hounded out of his leadership.

Worrying too that we know that both May and Davis are not adverse to dining with Dacre.

Not fussy are they?

I wonder if he pays them £50 thousand, or if they pay him.

Don't forget about the Libdems putting university fees up to £9,000 and leaving our grandchildren in far more debt than they can hope to repay in their lifetimes.
Those who are looking for a middle way, can you explain what there is in the Labour manifesto that makes you think of them as far left and that you do not agree with?

whitewave what is happening in politics today? Someone told me today about an MP whose pregnant wife has been abused online by people (trolls?) saying that they hope her unborn child dies because this MP happened to challenge Jeremy Corbyn in the H of C - which surely is the place where politicians should be challenged.

It is enough to make us despair.

BREXIT dj -

for me, more important than anything else- and it is unfair to blame Lib Dems for Uni fees- they were in a coalition inb a minority. And they were able to stop many other damaging policies. Time to let that one go- and onwards and forwards.

Diane Abbot backtracked today on a People referendum on the final deal- contradicting what she said only a couple of weeks earlier. And Corbyn has always been anti EU and is resfusing to come off the fence.

In my view much can be directly traced back to the way the media scapegoats so many groups.

As Brendon Cox said evil starts with the normalisation of hate. I can never remember a period like the past couple of years and the hatred shown to those who hold different views to another.

That’s to jalima btw.

Corbyn doesn’t need to come off the fence until he has too. That’s no big deal. It is up to the Government to deal with Brexit - all the opposition has to do is oppose.

if he does not come off the fence, he is not opposing- and that is the problem.

Jalima, that is indeed awful and despicable. And yet- what about all the death threats, and calling the Tories who voted for the Amendment the other day- like saying Anna Soubry deserves to be hanged, etc.

This is what is so upsetting for so many of us - how the country is split down the middle - the rise of racism, intolerance, the mob culture, Farage, Britain First and EDL threatening to set the country alight if a hard Brexit is not delivered, etc, etc.

No, staying on the fence is a deliberate policy. Labour has many supporters who voted to leave as we know. A lot of Remainers would never in a month of Sunday’s vote Tory for all the obvious reasons, so labour is hoping to keep these on side.

So far this strategy is working and they have no reason to change. To date there has not been too much to challenge as the Government doesn’t have a clue of what they want Brexit to look like.

Tory backbencher are encouraging May to reach out to Labour and form a cross party alliance, face down the loons and go for a soft Brexit.

Sounds like a plan! Having a cabinet reshuffle would help.

The problem is, jura, that the students now can't let that one go. They have to start paying back when earning over £21,000. We never did.
My husband was earning more than that over 20 years ago.
Yes, Libdems were the minority party in a minority government. They could have stopped that, particularly as they had been voted in on not raising the fees.
That's one reason why they are not trusted now.

Corbyn is trusted by the young now because he is the most honest of the leaders.
My middle granddaughter would be applying for university now, but she is not going to as she sees how hamstrung lots of her older friends are by fees.
I don't blame her at all.

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is excellent on the paper review at the moment.

We learn this morning that the cabinet members most involved with Brexit will discussing what they want a brexit to look like

Taken a while to sink in hasn’t it?

IDS (who is, in his eyes next to God) announced this morning that the UK will be going for a. Canada arrangement. Clearly not infallible as he forgot ireland in that hallowed announcement.

Of course presumably they won’t try to keep their ambitions of a post Brexit Britain secret?

It may be tactful to remind them that parliament is sovereign.
They need frequent reminding as we know.

Lord Malloch Brown a senior ex-diplomats is to lead the remain campaign and MPs in the run up to the final Brexit vote

Not sure this is the right place- but I am shocked and really upset. After the horrific accident in Birmingham this week-end and so many having lost their lives- the BBC News reported that the first man name is a young taxi driver, father of several young children.

Many of the comments on their FB page, instead of showing sadness and sympathy for him and his family- has many extremely racist statements which are totally disgusting. Shame, shame on them. But it does seem that since last year- that sort of thing has become acceptable to many.

Upset too, and not Brexit related- that the police and ambulance crews were unable to do their work as fast as they should have been able to- because of so many onlookers taking photos and videos of those dead or dying. What is happening to this world? I do hope none of you here will say 'get a grip and stop being melodramatic' - I sincerely do.

I am beginning to hope that we have begun to wake up to what is happening in the U.K. and where this message of hate pursued by the right wing press and far right politicians is taking us. I do fervently hope that the brakes will be finally applied and the vast majority in the U.K. begin to refuse to allow a tiny minority to sway opinion and emotion.

The infallibility of his holiness IDS is already hitting the buffers.

The banks have told Maybot that the Canadian option is a non-runner as far as services are concerned and the EU has already said that tweaking the options will not be done.

Surely that should have been realised a long, long time ago? Is this what happens when you have a country run by soundbite journalists who are more interested in talking about the shape of bananas?

I can't understand why IDS is still interviewed by any self-respecting news organisation. As universal credit was his idea, you'd think he would want to sneak away quietly.

For those who are concerned about democracy, this is an excellent website.

2017.mysociety.org/

Lots of links on it to show you what they do and how they work, not only in this country, but links to other sites and similar groups.

IDS referred to another politician [don't remember who] as 'yesterdays man'. As a failed party leader and all round nasty piece of work I don't know how he dares to say that about anyone else. Loathsome man.