Interesting? Frightening?

I'm not so much interested or frightened as a bit puzzled that a link to a 9 month old article has been posted, along with a paragraph that I don't really follow about an EDL visit to Scotland. Where is this "small local town", why was it of interest to the EDL, and did they get a coach there or something? Having worked in a school with over 600 pupils speaking 28 languages, many of them asylum seekers or refugees, in a town with a very high proportion of minority ethnic residents, all for the most part rubbing along amicably, I can only remember one very lack lustre EDL demo there, so can't imagine why they would travel so far to you. Can we have more details of this demo please?

Can't believe I didn't notice the date maggie. I'm annoyed now. Giving oxygen to organisations like the EDL is toxic to our country.

This article is much more useful than the one in the OP

Update on Syrian Refugee Families Living On Bute

There's no point in denying xenophobia exists in the UK, but let's not feed it.

Jalima1108....I didn't feel the need to talk about other empires as the OP and thread was about the UK.
Fair enough vq, I hope you didn't mind me mentioning it as it does seem to be a trend on here that only the British (usually defined as English!) had an Empire.

So many places around the world are named after Scots and Scotland - that is why I thought it was worth mentioning that point.

The article is from 17th March 2017 and the first line is:
Brexit is English nationalism made flesh

That in itself is an inflammatory statement as many Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish also voted for Brexit.

Why did I fall into the trap of Scottish Nationalism?

When my mother was at school in Britain in the 1920s she was taught about the differences between the races. It wasn't much different from Hitler's view! We still have her school geography atlas and it's blatantly racist. It's no wonder we still have problems.

Yes curlilox same with my DOM and a lot of other peoples, her yearning for an England as she saw it was so that her grandchildren could live as she did. She is now part of history but that feeling has obviously carried on hence the way the Brexit vote went.

I agree Luckygirl. Why did the EU not have a policy for dealing with refugees? They have armies of bureaucrats. They could have sent some to get people registered so that those that were entitled to help got it easily and in a managed way. Instead they ignored the problem for years until it reached crisis point and then Merkel panicked. We should have been able to give priority to refugees over people from Eastern Europe at least for a short while.
EDL represent no one but themselves, certainly not the vast majority of Leave voters.

Wilmaknickersfit Well said. I read that article about Bute and I believe that there are several areas where people feel the same.

Well I voted to remain, but would never assume that everyone who exerted their democratic right to vote the other way is a racist. Nor can I see that what was taught in schools (everywhere, I should imagine, not just in this country) a hundred years ago is particularly relevant today. What matters is changing twisted attitudes now. Those of us who actually have recent experience of living and working with significant numbers of people from other cultures know that there are tensions between various groups that need to be addressed. For instance, the first wave of Polish children who arrived at my school were rapidly pulled out when the second wave, Polish Roma, came over. Some established Asian families were vociferous about the EU migrants "coming over here, taking our jobs". We need to stop seeing racism and xenophobia as an English problem, and work together to change attitudes. And some of us need to get those big fat motes out of our own eyes first.

Good post Maggiemaybe.
It reminds me of a chat I had with second son who teaches in an international school in India. I asked him if there were any racial problems among the pupils. He thought for a long time (as he does) then said, "Only that the light-skinned Indians look down on the dark-skinned Indians."

This seems to bring out the very worst in people, sadly.

Is it always acceptable then for people from other countries who have never contributed in the past (or likely to in the present) to immediately jump to the front of the queue for benefits and housing. How does that help local people who may have worked and tried to save for years to buy their own home but can never manage it but who have been denied social housing because not enough is available or, at the least, they have pushed down the queue by newcomers. Maybe we should ask them how they feel. If you think it is so important for refugees to have homes then I assume you would be willing to give up your own to accommodate them.

Jalima my family thinks of nationalism as something involving Scotland and England

curlilox it certainly proves racism isn't something you are born with, it's something that is taught. Religion in education in the early 1900s was a huge issue too and very divisive. Part of the population didn't agree with government being used to support denominational schools. The 'Doubters and Dissenters' objected to the funding of faith schools including Church of the England schools, but the real problem was Catholic schools. The protesters called it Rome on the rates and prejudice against Catholics was rife. Even when I went to school in the 60s in Scotland, fights were organised between Catholic and Protestant schools. I moved to England at age 14 and the same thing happened in my new city. I was definitely taught at school that the only real religion was Catholicism and it was only when I moved to an interdenominational school that I realised how wrong this teaching was. Fortunately my parents were not overly religious.

Maggiemaybe You asked about the rally in Alloa and why it occured - I'll try to be brief:

The LA, Clackmannanshire Council, which happens to be the smallest LA in Scotland, agreed to take a generous quota of Syrian Refugee Families. Plans were progressed to accomodate the families together in a redundant Sheltered Housing/Care Complex which did not meet current Standards, using the money from the Home Office to upgrade the premises but this plan was rejected as unsuitable and the Council then identified some existing council housing stock, empty awaiting upgrading, which was refurbished ready for the new arrivals.

Meanwhile a private builder had built a small Estate of private houses down by the riverside but was struggling to sell them - not surprising as the houses, which looked lovely at the front, backed directly onto the Council's Coup and recyclying centre, with consequent noise, dust, etc. The Council decided to add a few of these empty houses to the Council's housing stock, at a reduced price and using the Resettlement Funds for the Syrians.

That is when there were protests via the local paper that the Syrians were being given brand new houses, while some local people had been waiting on the Housing List for years. A woman, living in England, whose mother had been waiting ages for suitable disabled adapted housing, within the County, led the campaign, which rapidly grew wings and referred to disabled ex-servicemen sleeping rough on the streets (Statistics and observation with our own eyes confirm that there are no Rough Sleepers in Clackmannanshire and that the Council's homeless provision is more than adequate.

This women started a petition (later withdrawn) which attracted 2000 signatories, very few of whom were locals and caught the interest of the 2 (Yes 2) locally based members of the EDLs Scottish Offshoot the SDL. The 'outrage' was spread via social media throughout the UK .
A march and rally was planned by them to congregate at the train station, march down the High Street and through town to the Council Offices, and then down to the refugees houses at the riverside.

The Police and LA vetoed this plan and the protesters were instead confined in a pen at the top of the high street (with a simalar pen at the bottom of the street for Counter protesters. Nonetheless there were imported armed Police gaurding the Council Buildings and the Refugees Homes. A Charity organised a Day Out for the Syrian familes, to ensure their safety.

The local YES group decided that a counter protest would be counter productive, best not to give them the oxygen of publicity, but various far left and Peace groups turned up and the two sides shouted and gestured at each other from their respective pens. The town Centre shops closed for the day and the vast majority of local people stayed well away.

www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/15091769.Scottish_Defence_League_to_march_in_Alloa/

Another report of the rally:

brignews.com/2017/03/11/anti-refugee-protesters-met-with-resistance-as-the-sdl-rally-in-alloa/

quizqueen with respect it would be helpful if you could back up your statement with facts. If you're not sure where to find out the facts I can suggest you start here

Immigration - Fullfacts.org

Maggie I understand what you mean about the relevance of education a 100 years ago, but those attitudes were passed down from generations to generations, all be it in a diluted form. The problem is that a lot of people are still looking back at the past, so we need to challenge the myths. The dilution continues, but not fast enough for me.

Thanks for that, Granny23. So it was actually Scottish Dawn and the SDL protesting, not the EDL?

Scots, not English people?

What is wrong with some xenophobia? If we were a tribe, along the Amazon, Sting and Gelodof and silly Allen would be fund raising for us to see off the invaders. People would be demandig that we live out lives un contminated by other cultures.

It is human nature to want to keep things as they are, this constant influx of new cultures is destabilising and the de -nudeing other countries, of its youg and strong is cutural rape....but hey ho I suppose people like to think they occupy a moral high ground without considering all the ramifications.

The rest of it is religions and those conflicts have gone on for millenia, its part of how it all works and that is part of human nature too.

I remember mu parents telling me about the black shirts and Mosely. Same thing now surely and look what happened to him and his cronies never got anywhere.
As long as we have people who care about others they will never get anywhere.

Wilma - I think that the general drift of the EU is towards federalism (which clearly also involves free movement - as it already does) but that the motives for this are woolly and vague. It is a "high" principle that lacks detail, and unfortunately pushes those who do not agree with this into being labelled as racist or Little Englanders. There are sound reasons for questioning the direction in which the EU is moving, and it is a cause for concern in many member countries, some of whom will be watching Brexit with great interest (which is also why the EU feels the need to give Britain a bad time over it).

The saddest thing is that ideas that emanate from the EU cannot be questioned in a calm and reasoned way - there is this sense that if you are not for it, then you must be against it. The reasonable stance of recognising some of the good things it has done, but also calling into question its faults and failures results in people being vilified. It is as if the aim of European peace and co-operation can only be achieved via the EU and anyone who believes otherwise or is prepared to question this received wisdom must by definition be on the side of Hitler.

Whilst I would be the first to agree that far right racist organisations have jumped on the Brexit bandwagon, and that this is highly unfortunate, to say the least, it is a very unhealthy situation when reasoned concerns about how the EU operate cannot be expressed or discussed openly

Excellent post Lucky

radicalnan wrote "What is wrong with some xenophobia?"
That's my view too, plus I agree with the rest of your post.
It exists in all nations and cultures, as far as I know.

lucky
You have put succinctly how many leavers feel, thank you ?

I confess to being an English nationalist but I would never go to Scotland, or NI or Wales, and tell them what they should do. England is heavily over-populated. Homelessness has increased over the last couple of years. We have just not got the space, or the resources, to accommodate everyone who thinks that they will have a 'better life' by arriving here by whatever means possible.

Almost every day I read some report which convinces me that too many people arrived over too short a period, without thought as to where they would live, what they would live on etc etc. 'Multiculturalism' was something that was forced on us. Everyone else's culture is not only equal to ours, but superior to ours. We've even been told that we English 'have no' culture of our own!

I could give so many examples to illustrate what I'm saying. Where to start, where to stop?

Bradford is a case in point. I delivered babies there in the 1970s. Just read an article about the situation there - it's almost like two nations.

Our national day, St George's, is laughed at and anyone flying a red and white flag is automatically labelled 'racist'. Not so St Andrew or St David.

The travellers. Their 'culture' - don't get me started. Locally we've had so much trouble recently with them pitching up and setting up home wherever they see fit, the most recent was just before Christmas when they chose to occupy an Asda car park.

On Christmas Day we passed a man on the hard shoulder of the M25 with his prayer mat out, praying! We had just come from church where we prayed. This guy had his hazard flashers out and was on his knees on the hard shoulder. One of themost dangerous places to be, as well as illegal.

I've heard of potential immigrants in northern France who have been offered asylum there, but they insist it's 'England' that they want. I've seen interviews with them - 'in England I'll be given a house...' Note the word 'given'. Tell that to the ex-servicemen and ex-prisoners locally who cannot be given a house because there aren't any.

When I thought of going to work in France some years ago I was turned down because my French was 'pas couramment' i.e. not fluent enough. It would have become more fluent with use, but that was ignored. I know of people who have lived in England for decades, long enough to draw their pension, and still don't speak a word of English. They live their lives in little enclaves and we are supposed to respect that because it's their 'culture'.

Just to finish, my darling husband's grandparents DID come here just over a century ago. They really were fleeing persecution and in 1940 there were plans held by the Nazis as to what was to happen to them when/if the invasion had been successful. Think Drancy then Auschwitz.

But they all learned English, brought their skills and trades with them, earned their living and became good citizens. Can't quarrel with that. My husband waves his St George's flag with the rest.

Another excellent post Margrete