Interesting? Frightening?

Granny 23

" Nothing to do with England/ Scotland animosity, everything to do with bigots, racists, sectarians flaunting their poison in the midst of decent people. "

You've lost me again .

Your OP link was ALL about England/Scotland /Brexit/Nationalism. The whole article is written in a manner that gives credence to those who feel the English have a superior attitude and basically calling those who voted leave in the EU Referendum xenophobes who are destroying the Union. To quote your article :

" The confrontation between English and Scottish nationalism is not going to moderate or evaporate."

Your OP link was all about " England/ Scotland animosity ".

As for your comments , "understand MY upset when these Alien hateful cultures took over my town. " and " everything to do with bigots, racists, sectarians flaunting their poison in the midst of decent people." They were Scottish !

If only being Scottish meant one never had to experience being exposed to 'alien cultures' like bigotry, racism and sectarianism!
No guarantee of that just because we are Scots but far less of the anti-eu/anti-immigrant/ pro brexit msm.

In your push to demonize the OP you are adding 2+2 to make 7!
You are reading opinions that aren't there and at the same time disregarding the blatantly obvious.

I'm sorry Granny23, but I can't let your last post go unchallenged.

You started this thread by quoting an article that is 9 months old. If I had noticed the date this thread would have taken a different direction from the start because I would have asked you why you waited so long to raise the subject. The fact that you stated the EDL were the protesters also didn't raise an eyebrow with me because the EDL is always causing trouble by protesting somewhere. It's the principle activity of the organisation - that and supporting other far right nationalist groups. I admit I only had half an eye on this thread and was discussing the EU with Luckygirl - coincidentally on my way back to England from spending Christmas in Scotland with my family (I'm Scottish).

It was maggie who spotted the date and who then queried what you had posted because the articles in the links you provided did not show anything to prove the EDL were involved. After you replied at length to her query, other than your say so there was still nothing to show the EDL were at the protest and she left the thread because it looked to her like the purpose of this thread was to stir things up between the Scots and the English.

In the meantime I had been searching for information on the day of the protest and posted saying I could not find anything that backed up your claims the EDL was there, let alone two coaches full of its members. For some reason that post wasn't saved, so I posted again at 22.51 last night to say I wanted to back up maggie.

⚫Even on the link you posted for the thousand flowers blog there's nothing to say the EDL were at the protest.
This is the link again for you to check again

⚫The only media coverage of the protest I could find is here
Alloa Advertiser

There's a lot of photos in this article, but none of them show EDL flags, banners or t-shirts, etc.

⚫Two more media links with coverage -
brig - Stirling University student newspaper
The Herald - one photo as part of an article about a Edinburgh protest

⚫Even the police report to Alloa Community Council dated 28th March 2017 only makes a one line reference to the protest

SDL protest and counter protest on 11th March, passed without incident.
(You can download the full police report here)

There's no doubt that the SDL is active in Scotland, but there's nothing to show the EDL is involved. In 2010 the EDL protested 4 miles away in the next town to where I live. Since the Brexit referendum far right nationalism and racism have been given oxygen to encourage bigotry.

There's nothing wrong with nationalism, but as far as I can see, with this thread you have implied that the nationalism that you witnessed in Alloa was from outside Scotland. You've managed to cause division on here that doesn't exist and to dredge up the same opinions we've seen time and time again since the Scottish Independence Referendum in 2014.

Whether that was always your intention I can't say, but that's the result.

I did draw the comparison mcem and stand by it.
I don’t think you have ever agreed with a post of mine on GN on any subject at all, but am I bovvered? Nope.

granny23 is never ranty and has sincerely held beliefs.Even if I don’t share them.

The fact that you stated the EDL were the protesters also didn't raise an eyebrow with me because the EDL is always causing trouble by protesting somewhere. It's the principle activity of the organisation - that and supporting other far right nationalist groups.
I think most right-minded, decent people, whatever they voted in the referendums, would be horrified to see such as the EDL or SDL etc, marching in their towns, or to see people protesting at the refuge we offer to those who have suffered such as the Syrian refugees.
Most people would be wondering where the police were and hoping they would be coming to disperse such hate-filled thugs.

^ but far less of the anti-eu/anti-immigrant/ pro brexit msm.^
But could that be because the Scottish press has other issues such as Scottish nationalism to discuss?

The vast majority of us simply do not want demonstrations of racism and bigotry on our doorsteps
That is good to hear, and likewise the vast majority of English people want none of this either.
Unfortunately, there are some people in Scotland who do wish to promote division and bigotry against the English.

As far as GN is concerned lemon I have to agree with your last post!

Jalima and Wilma am wondering if granny23 thought it was the EDL when in fact it was the SDL, and was it being wrongly reported that it was the EDL in the first place?
I see a lot of things quoted on GN, copied and pasted from who knows where that look very iffy.Hopefully granny23 will come back and tell us.

mcem I don’t just agree with others who I think are’ like minded ‘ on forums but take each subject and each post as a separate thing, either agreeing or not agreeing according to what I honestly think.Therefore when I see somebody posting along the lines of ‘ well, I never thought I would agree with blah blah, haha ‘sort of thing, it fills me with amazement.I don’t have to like the poster to agree with them.

Granny23 has always made her position very clear but in a reasonable way with helpful information; however, this may be a report which could have been sensationalised by the media.
Any demonstrations by extremist groups of whatever persuasion would be frightening though.

I think it's a waste of time posting Fullfacts.org info Wilma as it seems to me that some are not influenced by actual facts when forming opinions.

lemongrove I can see how that might have been what Granny23 meant if she hadn't posted later about the EDL coming up from England across the border to spout their hatred. At one point she said she knew it was the EDL because it was plastered all over the two coaches the people arrived in, and in another post said the vast majority of them arrived by train or coaches hired from English firms. I could even understand that she might have confused the EDL with the National Front because its leader David MacDonald was there. The NF is a UK wide far right fascist political party and he's a local councillor now in Aberdeen. Maybe he is leading the activities of the far right groups in Scotland and that would give me concern, especially as he is a holocaust denier.

I actually agree with almost everything that Granny23 says about Scotland and immigrants. However, as far as I can see English far right groups were not involved in the protest in Alloa in March. It was down to Scottish fascists.

Lazygirl never a truer word was spoken (or typed! ).

Jalima I live in the Midlands and it feels like the EDL turns up somewhere every few months. There's a lot of towns with multicultural communities to choose from where it's not been before. The town nearest to me it came to a few years ago was a marginal seat and there's an army barracks not too far away (it claims to campaign for better treatment of our forces personnel past and present). So it was a bit of a political hot-spot.

Thankfully nobody wants the EDL turning up anywhere near where they live. Usually there's a call for the demo to be banned on grounds of public safety, but that doesn't seem to happen. The cost of policing is high, especially when the demo is on a weekend. The EDL has no formal membership and communication with supporters is mainly through Facebook. It just announces where the next event will be and people turn up. This makes police numbers difficult to estimate. The EDL's origin is in football hooliganism and that is reflected in the violence that often occurs at demos. The EDL protesters arrive armed with crude weapons and apparently it always tries to break through the police cordons to get at counter protesters. Not all counter-protesters are the 'good guys' btw and have been known to cross the line of peaceful protest.

Shopkeepers and businesses close up because of the potential for damages or worse. That happens even if businesses are closed, so there's the clean up costs to consider. The number of counter-protesters always outnumbers the EDL protesters by a large margin, but the EDL has achieved its objective by then by getting maximum publicity for its cause.

Ironically if you look at the EDL website you can see that it is full of lucid and articulate statements. The problem is you would not automatically match the information on the website with the reality of the images we see on our screens and in the papers. Most of the people who turn up to support the EDL pay absolutely no attention to the stated aims of the organisation and act in a manner completely at odds with what is required of them a respectable group. Of course this enables the EDL to declare complete deniability for the behaviour of its supporters.

Scum.

It's frightening that nothing much seems to be done, or able to be done, about them then.

That's the price we pay for free speech, etc. My instinct is to say ban these kinds of groups, but then the problem of where to draw the line comes up. Half these groups are underground anyway, so banning them wouldn't really achieve much. My problem is that I worry that we're always witnessing the start of the thin edge of the wedge. We're so lucky to have lived our lives without war. If you are a forces family I can't imagine what it's like to have a loved one in constant danger. One of the reasons I voted to stay in the EU was the fact that were less likely to go to war with our allies and business partners. I know others ridicule that point, but it's how I feel. For years now when a particular event happened, I've wondered if this is it? Is this how everything starts to change? I suspect if I lived in the USA (God forbid ) I would turn into a prepper or a survivalist!

I am usually 'Pollyanna' (well Pollyanna with some anxiety) but I have been feeling like that too recently Wilma.

I'm outwardly the optimistic smiley one, Mrs EverythingWillBeJustFine, but when I'm on my own the thoughts grow legs!

I am Mrs Optimistic until the middle of the night

Since I posted about my thoughts growing legs, all I can picture is a haggis running around a hill. I've lost the plot.

Wilma I cannot prove that the EDL were in Alloa that day, I cannot even claim to have seen them with my own eyes but was told by people I know well that they and their coach/s were there, I recollect that this was mentioned in some detail on the Alloa Advertiser's comments boards on Facebook and Twitter but these are transient, not archived. I have tried searching on both EDL and SDL pages and apart from learning that many people, posting under false names, seem to be members of both EDL & SDL, these web sites and facebook pages are abandoned then restarted on a regular basis and there is nothing that goes back to last spring.

It has occurred to me that both You and I are in danger of being notice by the powers that be, for having conducted extensive google searches about these organisations. We may well be on a list somewhere and who is going to believe that this was all for a thread on Gransnet?

I hope you will agree that it is time to call a truce and, given that we seem to be in agreement on the repugnant nature of these racist and fascist groups, chalk it up to experience and the extraordinary ability of these tiny groups to provoke discord and rancour among those who are basically of the same mind. PAX?

PAX. Thank you. I felt uneasy even accessing the EDL website. Tomorrow is another day.

As I said earlier I#m an English nationalist. Not a member of the English Defence League. I used to belong to a political party, the English Democrats. Not political any longer - I realised belatedly that politics is the dirtiest game imaginable.

That said, all the English nationalist that I know of do not go demonstrating in Scotland, Wales or NI. We have enough problems of our own within our own borders.

EDL or SDL they are both just as bad (IMHO) I don’t think they have a huge membership ( do they?) Most people are not extremists of any kind.

It does make you think if what can actually be believed doesn’t it?
granny23 trusted the words of people known to her, other people trust websites or newspapers.Even the BBC can be wrong at times as well ( Mr Lemongrove proved this the other day, about football stats, not important.)
Instead of thinking it is the truth, we need to think more along the lines of, well it could be but I shall reserve judgement!

Wilma

It's running away to hide before the 25th January.
and there's no escape in England or Wales as Burns Suppers seem to be becoming more popular!