Self Indentitying Women

Come on Eglantine Terribull gave several examples of the biological aspects of being a woman and pregnancy was only one of them. What really matters in this discussion is how as women our biology is an important part of what shapes us and experiencing life as a female throughout our life. At one level I really don’t care about the loo issue- if only that were the real problem about SI. The real problem is the attack on women’s rights, on women’s rights to safe spaces,on women’s rights to have the concerns and issues they experience as biological women taken seriously and not have those things hijacked by this misogynistic group for their own dubious motives.

Amma and Mollie - Women are not called for smear tests under 25 - a fair number die from cervical cancer because of this. There are campaigns to change this and it was even discussed during PMs question time very recently. PHE has issued a document saying that men identifying as women should be invited for smears - in spite of the fact they have no cervix. They also state that women identifying as men, or that have transitioned, and DO have a cervix, should not be called for either smears or breast screening. As I said it's madness.

That’s a bit unfair Eglantine 21,I think you have taken TerriBull’s comment out of context.

Umm, my sister TerriBull? She wasn't able to have children.

I'll tell her she's not a real woman, shall I?

There is nothing physical now to stop a man entering a women's loo but a man acting as a man, and wearing men's clothes is immediately identifiable.

It is difficult to know whether a man who identifies himself as as a woman, not transgender, but dressed and looking like a women but physically a complete man, is genuinely what he says, or simply a man using this availability to indulge in voyeuristic activities. The problem then is other women may not realise he is male and be unaware of the danger.

"I absolutely refuse to be lablled a cis woman, Jenni Murray was right trans woman are exactly that - they are not "real" women. I agree with your post Mareliza, perhaps what we need in the murky waters we seem to be entering, is a third sex classification. I recently watched the very beginning of Big Brother until I lost interest, where the viewer was introduced to India, a trans woman, who was frequently heard declaring, very loudly "I am a woman", as a couple of the others in the house had mis gendered her. I couldn't help thinking at the time if she were an actual woman, at the age she is 50, she would either be in the midst of the menopause or soon to enter that phase with all that goes with it. That of course will never happen. It takes a lot more than flicky hair, a fair amount of facial slap and sexy clothes to become, what in my opinion is a one dimensional version of a woman, almost a parody some might say. I do understand that some people are trapped in the wrong body, but even though India might now be experiencing certain aspects of being a woman she can never know what it is like to have a period, experience the pain that sometimes goes with that, become pregnant, give birth, breast feed, suffer from post natal depression, go through the menopause have a hot flush or any of the other umpteen symptoms associated with that phase of a woman's life. Not all women will experience all of those states, but show me one who hasn't had at least a couple.

youtu.be/6Oj8RQKw9eU

Oh dear, I think I have lost the will to live.

So does this mean that regardless of wither one is born biologically male or female ,a person can identify as one of 74 variations of gender ?

I think I read somewhere that there are 74 variations on gender.

I that a joke, Fitzy? I don't seem to fit in anywhere.

Maryxyx, yes I suppose the likelihood of a transgender person as apposed to any other person being a mad muderer/rapist entering an isolated (ie train stations etc) loo late at night is a bit of a ridiculous concern ,which probably says more about me than anyone else.!!!

Wow Fitzy54. And Not even a mention of heterosexual

oops ... There are plenty of laws about indecent behaviour, assault etc. Nobody is suggesting any changes. I've already said that what is proposed here is simplifying the long and expensive process of acquiring a Gender Recognition Certificate. Have you even asked a woman in a public loo to show you her birth certificate or chromosome analysis? I expect not, and I don't expect any of us have.

Good grief

@Bridgeit

alphabetizer.flap.tv/lists/list-of-facebook-gender-options.php

We are all born either male or female or somewhere inbetween but for society to make allowance for every single difference is not possible. Its getting ridiculous.

I know this will sound paranoid & I will probably get ridiculed but I find public loos can vary quite a bit and also be a bit scary at night if they do not have attendants on site.I think I will now be adding this subject to my worry list, by wondering if another person entering the loos is a woman , or a genuine transgender person or non genuine person or possibly a pervert who has taken the opportunity to pose as a woman by just being able to say that they self identify as a woman. Am I being ridiculous?What do others think.?

A man who has gone through counselling, surgery, adjusting to the female world is not the same as man who decides he is a woman so is a woman

Snap Amm

How can a man sI-ing as a woman have a smear test? And when are young women denied smear tests? I thought there is a drive to call them forward.

As for mammograms, well as men do get breast cancer perhaps there’s a case for some form of screening based on the possibility of disease and not just gender?

I’m fed up with all these sub divisions of gender, race, ethnicity, whatever. Why can’t we just be people and bloody well get on with living our lives in peace? I don’t want anyone to speak for me, I just want to be allowed to get on with my own business and to be treated fairly and respectfully as I try to be to anyone I come in contact with. It doesn’t seem hard to do in my opinion. Grump over.

I'm not sure how a trans male to female could be given a smear test (caocao, above).To my knowledge, a cervix isn't a part of the kit you get in a sex change op. Germaine Greer said they should give m2f trans people a bleeding uterus as that would sort the committed from the wannabes. Too true. Also, men could have mammograms as they do have breast tissue and about 50 men per year die of breast cancer, I believe. The fact that they don't get routine screenings is due to cost/benefit.

terribull
I have no issue with male becoming female/vice/versa.
To each his own. What has been at the front of my
thoughts concerning transition is no matter what can cosmetically be achieved is this not all about choice.?What one would like to be? Because a female favours physical activities / servicing a car /structural work opposed to dressmaking and cake baking mean she should have been born a male? Or vice versa the male dislikes what many see as female activities.
Our gender is determined at conception, the foundation of our being.Nature can be cruel showing physical malfunctions .To later claim that one should have been a female /male because their behaviour was not characteristic of their gender ie They did not feel right? I am finding difficult to understand.Females have their own chemistry males have theirs. Can transition be total ?
If it achieves your object it appears so.

There is nothing in the proposal at all relevant to toilets and changing rooms. At the moment a trans person (yes there are trans men as well as trans women) can change their name on their bank account and so on with no problem. A driving licence and passport can be changed for a small fee. These documents are accepted by everyone except State Pensions and the prison service. For the last two a Gender Recognition Certificate is required. What we are talking about in the proposal is simplifying the GRC so it no longer takes two years and hundreds of pounds to obtain.