Are older people today out of touch politically with younger generations?

James please explain what you mean by:

"Having just read Nonnies &;Anniebach comments not sure there would be any benefits would accrue to suggesting they look on Gransnet"

To whom are you referring in 'they'?

If you didn't like my comments was it simply because they didn't accord with your own views? What was untrue in what I said?

One of the things I have noticed in some young people is that they allude to things without giving actual examples of the things/behaviours they don't like. This gives the impression that a thing has happened when in reality it hasn't.

You said:

"As I have not expressed my own views I find it the height of ignorance on the part of those hating to hear views they don’t agree with to criticise what they describe as my views. Even being told that I am a Corbyn supporter which frankly is silly and very far from true."

I think it is wrong to attribute the comment of one person to the rest of us. The replies I have read are based upon the content of your OP, what else would you expect?

It is unfortunate that you seem to have already decided about older people and not 'listened' to the, on the whole, well written and well thought out views on here. In the OP you refer to "wider open debates on social media" which is exactly what you are getting. Why do you seem to not like it?

I think that being out of touch and/or holding opinions out of habit or influence from family/friends rather than basing views on experience and knowledge is not confined to any age group.

However, I do feel that many older people are too quick to dismiss the opinions and feelings of younger people, writing them off as "unrealistic", "idealistic", etc. etc., and disparaging them in many other ways.

I do think that some things in "the old days" were better and I don't believe it is because I am older but because, when looked at dispassionately, most things are not so clear cut. It was easier to get a decent job that paid reasonable money, housing - whether rented or owned - was more easily available and cheaper, work was more secure, etc. etc. On the other hand, there was little acceptance of difference, there was more racism and sexism, fewer young people had the opportunity to pursue their educational and vocational interests, etc, etc.

I think a lot of older people are very out of touch with the experiences and opinions of the younger generation and are just far too quick to judge...and compare modern hardship with their own ("much harder") younger self. I get sick of reading things like "we only had one room or we had a 15% mortgage rate or we had to work hard and save for 100 years for a carpet" etc. which cannot be compared with the problems faced with today's young people.

I also think that a lot of older people live in a bit of an "I'm alright Jack" bubble. They own their own very comfortable and valuable home that will be passed on to their children who will eventually pass on top their children etc. who claim that they are not lucky they just "worked very hard" (as though people living in rented accommodation are lazy louts and its there own fault for not working hard enough) not thinking or caring that there are a lot of youngsters who will never see a penny of inheritance and the cycle of hopelessness will continue.

I was agreeing Ggmk2 but also saying that there is no point in arguing amongst ourselves we have to accept the result of the referendum.

I may be an unusual old person kitty but I don't agree that we have to accept the result of the referendum.

I agree with all the younger folk I know that we should not just quietly accept the fact that 26% of the population who voted Leave on one day in 2016 in an advisory referendum are entitled to bully the rest of us into accepting untold damage to our country.

So what do you propose varian. Lots of people shouting at and blaming each other isn't going to achieve much.

gilly why can't our problems be compared with the youngsters of today? Surely they can? They are different but when we look at the picture overall it is reasonable to compare. I think the problem arises when we only compare one aspect of our earlier lives compared to those of today. So may things are harder today and so many easier so it is important to look at the bigger picture.

Was it better for about 5% of 18 year olds to go to university with a grant or for 50% to go and have to pay? I would be interested to hear views on this.

I don't believe those who voted to leave are bullying others. They voted. That's all. Just the same as the remainers.

I wish I knew the answer kitty. I am not optimisitic about stopping brexit, although there is no doubt in my mind that would be by far the best thing for our country.

I suppose the best we can hope for is damage limitation. Although the Liberal Democrats and others are asking for a referendum on "the deal" before we leave, I do not feel confident that the power of the right wing tabloids to distort the truth and influence a substantial minority would not again prevail.

I hope that the MPs who sincerely believe that we should Remain have the courage of their convictions and vote down brexit in a "meaningful vote". However I lost confidence in many of them when they voted to invoke Article 50.

The younger folk I know are more involved in actively campaigning but it is hard to see how much more they can do. The angry brexiters are more vociferous and better reported in the media.

I do not feel at all out of touch politically with people in their teens, twenties, thirties, forties. I just wish we could do more to help them safeguard the future of their children and grandchildren.

Hi Nonnie I would say I had quite a hard life as a young woman. In 1980 I had a baby (I was 18) , no partner, worked full time, had a rented flat in a horrible area filled with everyone's cast offs. It seemed acceptable then. I made my bed.

Would I want that life for my children or grandchildren? Why would I rub it in their faces every time they moaned about not having something (television, mobile phone, money for a night out, holiday or whatever)?

Time moves on. What was "acceptable" back in the day, is not longer. I don't think having it hard makes you into a better person.

The young people I know who voted Brexit did it for their own reasons (immigration and lack of jobs I am told by those I know). Of course they didn't know then what they know now so may vote differently today.

James your young family members would do well to read some of the threads in News and Politics Forum, where they will find lots of politically savvy older contributors with very strong political views looking forward and not hankering after a return to yesteryear. They won't find many wallowing in the past here. Perhaps your family members were reacting to your family elders' views.

Here they will find over 50s 60s and 70s and yes, some over 80s, who are very focused on the present and going forward; who are very concerned about the future of their grandchildren, their education, their job opportunities and future health care provision. They will read that retired members here are concerned about employment rights of all workers and the impact of zero hours contracts. Many of us know from first hand experience the struggles our AC and some GC have to make ends meet whilst bringing up families. We worry about how our GC will afford a home and how they will provide for THEIR pensions? All of which is forward looking.

Most here are deeply concerned about building a future society where all can achieve and thrive in caring communities, with homelessness eradicated, food banks a thing of the past, and with equality for all.

We worry about how our GC will afford a home and how they will provide for THEIR pensions?

Yes Ginny42 i agree, but for some it's only as long as it isn't at the expense of their own final salary pension (that they worked hard for) or their precious bus pass, winter fuel allowance etc.

As home ownership and house price inflation have grown in our lifetimes, so has the gulf between those who inherit property and those who never will.

On the one hand there are many young folk who struggle to find an affordable rental, let alone put a foot on the bottom rung of the housing ladder, and then on the other there are the folk we see looking to buy a second home (usually in the sun) because they have had an inheritance windfall.

This government has a policy of raising the inheritance threshold to £1 million, on the basis that a modest semi in a smart part of London might sell for that.

It is a bit of a lottery whether you have home-owning parents who die and leave you such a large sum. Should we question the morality of inheritance?

It is a bit of a lottery whether you have home-owning parents who die and leave you such a large sum. Should we question the morality of inheritance?

Exactly varian it means that successive generations of "the have's" will always be okay. They will always be the ones on the top of the tree as they have had a huge leg up, whereas the "have-nots" will tend to remain at the bottom. This will carry on throughout generations.

I totally disagree with raising the inheritance threshold to £1 million. Its obscene.

I think the divide between the age groups does have a lot to do with the struggles some remember having and the fact that many youngsters pretty much expect to have a lot without saving or waiting. However, to some extent, I blame the older generation for the way they brought their children up. Those who gave their children everything now have to watch them feel they are entitled to so much.

Only yesterday a friend and I we talking about what we have passed on to our children. Mine have modest, far from new, cars, they don't often eat out, they don't buy coffee and sandwiches to eat at work. The ones who live in the UK have a big cook up on Sundays so they can take in lunches all week and make a flask of hot drink to take in. The one who lives abroad has lunch provided at work. They all cook and don't buy ready meals. These are the reasons they have their own homes. They saved for their first modest home and one took a lodger to help pay his mortgage and allow him to save. Now they are in their second homes and they saved for a big deposit which meant they got very low interest rates on their mortgages. They don't feel 'entitled' they recognise that they have what they have worked very, very hard for and gone without to achieve. I am proud that we taught them to be like that by our example. No one gave us anything, we paid for our own wedding and everything else since but we have been hard up and gone without and I don't think that anything we did has deprived those who have followed after. We have coped with redundancy, moving home to get a job and many of the things others have had to deal with. I wouldn't say we have had it easy by any means but now we have the retirement we worked for. I do object to being blamed for the hardships of today's young people.

Strong views expressed that Older People have been brain washed by the tabloids far more than the under 50’ ,who tend to form their views by wider open debates on social media and TV politics..

How bloody patronising!
How to paint a picture of old people being doddery and not at all au fait with current affairs, relying on a newspaper to give them their views!

It's insulting given most of my generation had home computers in the mid nineties and were pioneers of gadgetry like mobile phones. We've moved on to tablets now and guess what - we even know about blue-tooth and how to connect things wirelessly! Some of us even have programming skills.

Some may have resisted but most of my generation are very involved with social media, especially discussion forums. Don't faint, but we also watch the news!

Remember, most of us bought our children their first Amstrad/Nintendo or PlayStation as well as their first mobile phone, and showed them how to use it. We are far from being ignorant.

I have had a PC for 24 years now. It's a wonderful source of information and enables me to read around all sorts of political arguments.

Just occasionally the present younger generation gets a little too big for their boots. If it comforts you to imagine older people are ill informed politically or set in their ways, keep your prejudices. Don't forget we also laid the foundations for most things you take for granted today and gave you the stability to grow up in this ever-changing world. Heated good-tempered debate about all sorts of things is the norm in this household. My adult children are in their 20s and 30s and wouldn't dare to presume I was incapable of looking at all the angles and had limited intelligence.

I'd say the younger generation, and people like the OP need to question their prejudices. What does it say about them if they believe there is a (well educated) generation of people over 50 with views that can be dismissed?

Day6 oh yes, I was using computers before Windows! I wonder how many today could cope with all the dot commands etc we had to use. Wordstar, Wordperfect etc. Bet I could still do it now. And of course decimalisation. I won't go on.

Crumbs - decimalisation! I was 23 and always called to do the conversion and that was when I decided that I was going to keep up with the world.

That still doesn't stop me being shocked at the price of a bar of chocolate if I convert it back! But hey, I'm nearly 70 and can still do it!!

Good post Day6

I remember the days when a computer filled a huge room .....

If it comforts you to imagine older people are ill informed politically or set in their ways, keep your prejudices.
Day6 I think that James2451 says he is a grandfather; apparently it's the younger members of his family who are expressing such strong views about the over 50s being stubborn, self-centred and brainwashed.


I do hope you weren't paying for their lunch James

The young will always challenge what has gone before them. In general that has been a good thing but such challenge will often go too far, and it is then equally fair for others to argue back. A case in point is the recent action of London students in intimidating staff and customers at a Churchill themed cafe, in one case calling anyone who admired him as facist scum. I understand that their student union body has given the protesters official support. To say such things about the man who dedicated a substantial part of his life in fighting fascism, and who was responsible more than anybody for Britain’s refusal to quit the war against Hitler when France surrendered, is patent ignorance. We all need to listen to each other, but the age of the speaker doesn’t make him or her right.

Digressing a bit about computers and decimalisation no?

My brother was int he first batch of a PhD in Computer Studies in France in 1964 - and part of a team that invented several computer languages. And he is as bright as a button and much loved by all his nephews ans nieces for his open views. The computers they used were housed in massive buildings. I came to UK before decimalisation- money, weights and measures were a nightmare- and less than 1 month after doing my driving test on the right, was driving in centre of London on the left, and had to re-do my licence 6 months later to comply with UK Law.

Not quite sure what it has to do with this topic though.

Young people are furious they were sold down the river by too many older people who listened to the lies and the tabloids (not all, but too many)- and I totally get that. The future is theirs, not ours. But I also know too many young people who just did not bother to vote- one of my own daughters btw.

The future belongs to everyone. Just that some will experience a longer future than others. I'm not prepared to be written off as somehow less important than someone younger. I find it appalling!

Well, I was just proving my brain still works now, jura.

Not quite sure what it has to do with this topic though.
I think it's the assumption by the younger members of James's family that anyone over the age of 50 is a dinosaur who has no idea how to use social media and is not open to debate.

You've just added another couple of points to those of other posts which disprove that theory jura!