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(33 Posts)
Jackthelad Mon 05-Feb-18 15:43:39

I have a question. All the time I hear the cry the NHS is failing through lack of money. Is this true?
Supposing the NHS had access to all the money it wanted would it really cure all its problems and be the wonderful service we would all like it to be? I don't know do you?

NotTooOld Mon 05-Feb-18 16:09:20

I suppose no-one knows but things can't go on as they are. The government must get its priorities right and give it some more money. Having said that, I suspect there is room for improvement in the way goods and services are procured by the NHS. Remember the vastly expensive single pot of moisturiser recently supplied by Boots? It might also be beneficial to look closely at the high salaries paid to some NHS managers.

NotTooOld Mon 05-Feb-18 16:15:23

Whoops, two threads on this now.

kittylester Mon 05-Feb-18 16:28:54

IMO, the NHS needs rethinking to make it fit for today's world. It needs to be made independent from government, run by a cross party committee with guaranteed income and increases so planning can be put in place to cope with advances in medical science and changes in the population.

Health and Social care should be integrated - they are not and never can be separate.

Older people who can afford it should not get free prescriptions or WFP nor should they get free bus passes. Those that can't afford to do without these should be subsidised.

newnanny Mon 05-Feb-18 16:30:28

I can't help thinking when people are in hospital they should buy their own food. The NHS is supposed to offer medical services not a B&B. Imagine how much would be saved if NHS stopped providing food.

durhamjen Mon 05-Feb-18 18:03:34

Imagine how many people would die, too.
I presume you are aware that some elderly people come out hospital more malnourished than when they went in.

durhamjen Mon 05-Feb-18 18:07:16

"Caroline Abrahams, a director at Age UK, said: “It is shocking that more than 1 million older people suffer from or are at risk of malnutrition in our country. It is a huge hidden problem in our communities.

“There are many reasons why people become malnourished – poor health can make it harder for people to shop and cook, many lack the help they need at home to eat and drink properly, and for some, loneliness, isolation and depression may mean they simply lose motivation to eat well.

“Many of these people will eventually come into hospital or a care home – in fact, nearly one in three of all older people admitted to hospital are already malnourished or at risk of malnutrition. It is vital that they get the additional help and support they need to eat and drink while they are able.” "

Today's news.

whitewave Mon 05-Feb-18 18:08:16

Blimey kitty you’ve let the latest report sink in, I do so agree with you. It’s just a pity that the government is kicking it into the long grass.

MaizieD Mon 05-Feb-18 18:10:19

I can't help thinking when people are in hospital they should buy their own food.

2 things:

When I worked in hospital catering in the 1970s the amount of money we got per patient was unbelievably minute. I'm wondering if the now privatised 'hotel services' are actually costing more than doing it 'in house' did.

One of the ward sisters remarked to me that the food was an important part of a patient's treatment. Which, if you think about it, is largely true. We had to ensure that patients were offered a balanced and nourishing diet; I'm not sure what 'buying your own' would result in. Unless, of course, you're thinking of presenting patients with a bill at the end of their stay?

When it comes down to it, we could easily afford to finance our health service properly; it's just a question of priorities. We've managed to 'find' £400+ billion for Quantative Easing since 2008; the NHS could have thrived on a fraction of that...

MaizieD Mon 05-Feb-18 18:11:54

I presume you are aware that some elderly people come out hospital more malnourished than when they went in.

I wasn't, dj. Where is that from?

Jackthelad Tue 06-Feb-18 09:39:22

Good morning folks. The question I asked was about the financing of the NHS as a whole and some how the thread has drifted onto hospital meals. When I was in hospital recently I witnessed quite a lot of inefficiencies one of these was the daily menu which was on a printed card which was the same one every day and the meals reheated frozen ones.
When working abroad in eastern Europe behind the iron curtain one of my team was hospitalised and there was no food was provided and unfortunately we did not know this and when we did we had to take in turns leaving the job to visit the poor fellow to ensure he was fed. This was not a good experience for him or us in how to get the sick back to health.

trisher Tue 06-Feb-18 10:01:19

I love the NHS and the people working in it are doing such a wonderful job. I don't think that people should have to buy their own food. I do think that the food provided in hospital isn't what it should be and hospitals are working with outdated methods and practices. The problem is that any such change would require a massive investment, although it would pay for itself eventually in both costs and health outcomes, no one has the cash to do it. So the hospitals struggle along using what they have whilst other organisations introduce more and more hi-tech ways of providing food.
If there was proper funding and hospitals were not having to try and juggle budgets, sometimes robbing Peter to pay Paul, then the NHS would be fine. It could be funded if all the tax loopholes were shut and companies had to pay properly.

kittylester Tue 06-Feb-18 10:24:52

ww, they are actually following me!! grin

I've said that on countless threads since joining GN. It seems obvious to me. DH worked for the NHS for over 50 years and it has been on the cards for years that a crisis was on it's way.

It is unfair on all the hardworking people in the NHS that the cracks are just papered over rather than someone thinking about how it should be NOW.

Since it's inauguration we have seen countless changes in medical science, family circumstances, longevity etc etc. It is entirely sensible that it is rethought totally.

When the NHS started my Nan's neighbours used to go and get cotton wool and aspirins on prescription. Last year, my lovely SiL's father was walking around with over £100K's worth of equipment keeping his heart going. The 2 things do not equate.

And, you can't blame the Tories or Labour (before this gets political grin) as neither party have been prepared to say we need to stop, rethink and start again.

Better stop -my BP is going up!

lemongrove Tue 06-Feb-18 10:34:26

Good posts kitty?and I completely agree.

lemongrove Tue 06-Feb-18 10:37:08

Food and ‘general care’ are very important in hospital but have been taking ‘a back seat’ for years (easily 20 years) from my observation.

kittylester Tue 06-Feb-18 11:50:12

I've been musing on changes since the introduction of the nhs and it occurred to me that my nan's neighbours didn't have electric lights when it first came into being.

SiL's dad used to plug himself into the mains at night!grin

NotTooOld Tue 06-Feb-18 12:09:54

That's right, of course, the NHS needs a complete rethink to make it fit for current needs. Who would be best to do that? I remember a TV prog some time ago where a chap called Robinson, I think he was originally to do with Robinson's TV rental company but anyway, a businessman and philanthropist. He went into hospitals to observe what was going on and came up with many ways in which the NHS could be more efficient. One of them was to use operating theatres at weekends, which they weren't in those days, and I know this is now done. There were lots of other ideas, too.

NotTooOld Tue 06-Feb-18 12:11:44

PS I'm not saying the NHS doesn't need more money as well as reorganistation, by the way. It obviously needs both those things.

NotTooOld Tue 06-Feb-18 12:12:08

reorganisation! I'm off now.

kittylester Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:01

I'd like Norman Lamb to be involved.

M0nica Tue 06-Feb-18 16:37:29

The Lib Dems have brought out a report in the last few days.

One of their suggestions is that those working past retirement age continue to pay NI. I would go further and say that all retired people should continue to pay NI, except those whose income level is at Pension Credit level or just above.

In fact, ideally, I would get rid of all the bells and whistles, older people get, including free prescriptions. If you need a lot of medications, a prescription prepayment certificate cost £104 a year, £2 a week, to cover all prescriptions for a year. and increase the Pension Credit level to ensure those on the lowest incomes are not out of pocket. Paying NI and for prescriptions should bring in significant extra money for the NHS and older people could no longer be described as a 'burden' on the NHS as we would still be contributing to the system.

Anniebach Tue 06-Feb-18 17:00:21

If many elderly people are malnourished when admitted to hospital what does this say about our communities and they cannot all be without families

M0nica Tue 06-Feb-18 17:22:15

Annie, it is very difficult to get someone to eat when they do not want to.

I was caring for an elderly relative who I knew was not eating properly and doing everything I could to coax him to eat, even leaving a cake he liked cut into slices on the side beside the teapot, he drank a lot of tea. When there I would serve regular cups of tea with 2 small biscuits or slices of banana to get him to eat. On occasion he would, but usually he didn't. I lived a distance away but his home help would try to monitor what he was eating and ring me and let me know, but nothing I or his help did, could get him to eat and in the end he had to be admitted to hospital.

I also looked after another relation with dementia. His carers would prepare his lunch, but he wouldn't eat it. I would prepare tea, but he wouldn't eat that either. On his own he sometimes ate a bowl of cornflakes. Fortunately we were able to get him into care with his wife before he became too undernourished.

Lynnebo Tue 06-Feb-18 17:22:20

''We trained hard—but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we were reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and what a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while actually producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralisation''
Petronius Arbiter

The NHS keep changing the goal posts. Continually bringing in new initiatives, new IT systems, reorganising management while seemingly missing the point that it should all be about the patient and patient care.

Telly Tue 06-Feb-18 17:45:31

I guess the underlying question is does the NHS need more money or can it use the money it has more efficiently? It is such a large organisation although to be truthful it is not really national it is regional. So each region has its own managers, hr, etc. There is obviously a lot of duplication so it could be more efficient with a reduction in management but thats not going to happen - turkeys and Christmas and all that.