Something rotten?

In my view, corruption is not a "soft" target - indeed it is a very hard nut to crack and, I would imagine, can be found in all parts of the world, in all industries, professions and public bodies.

I think that corruption, that is the acquisition of contracts or favours (eg to overlook illegal or unethical behaviour) on the basis of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" or on the basis of threats or bribes, is probably at the root of injustice and inequality across the globe.

I am however giving my opinion which is the raison d’être of discussion forums.
Whether I am clearly not reading the responses here is a matter for conjecture.
Corruption of any sort in high places is undeniably grounds for concern, just saying there may be other examples to concern us.

You are obviously not reading responses. I have no problem with FM in a private setting- what is clear- is that Senior Police, Judiciary and business that take on contracts from Councils or GVT- should have their FM association declared.

Simple, really?

If you go to a specialist in any profession, for advice- do you expect them to refer you to the best person for the job- or to one of their FM members?

I read a national broadsheet every morning and while I would not deny that there have been articles on Freemasonry particularly within the Palace of Westminster, “full of articles” might be overstating the case.
Yes there is much for those who wish to be outraged to be outraged about - male, secret, elitist, and probably white and middle class, although I could not comment as of course we don’t know, but there is also too much of the “this should not be allowed” rhetoric.
Are there not greater evils worthy of our indignation, or is this a “soft” target?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/secret-handshake-police-freemasons

are they 'the angry brigade' - or people in the know re the influence of FM in public life - and not just charity work?

petra: 'what else can the angry brigade come up with, I know, Free Masons. They are always a good fallback position grin'

then perhaps, there is a good reason why the subject comes up again and again. The Press has recently been full of articles explaining why we should indeed be concerned - and even the most Senior Police and Judiciary have expressed serious concern. There must be some reason for this?

kittylester

May I respectfully remind you of these words of wisdom attributed to the great Al Capone.
“It ain’t over till the fat lady sings”

www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-20449,00.html

But do we risk suffering from “outrage fatigue”
#pearlclutchersRus

Kitty

All I can say is for a secret society a lot of people know a lot about them .

Petra

* All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. * Burke

Kitty
Brexit is getting/ is now boring. Trump hasn't said anything mind blowingly stupid for some time, Farage is reasonable quiet: what else can the angry brigade come up with, I know, Free Masons. They are always a good fallback position

I presume you were talking about me taking it seriously jura. I did because it is a huge generalisation - not the norm.

And, on Sunday, you said you had stopped posting on the subject!

My Father was a FM, my husband was in round table and now belongs to a FM lodge for past tablers. No secret society goings on. FM raise millions for charity, particularly ones local to their lodges.

Please do not believe all you read in the newspapers, as there is nothing that journalists like more than a conspiracy theory or some sensationalism. Rarely will they let the facts get in the way of a good story.

An interesting recent article- you may not agree- but a good read:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/14/illuminati-running-world-not-mad-idea-questioning-hidden-power-elites-sane?CMP=fb_gu

Indeed Maizie. There are professions where such allegiances should be declared- like those mentionned above. We can't have Laws and rules in this country that are by-passed by FM due to members being part of Senior Police or Judiciary. I don't know how anyone could argue against that. And anyone who says there is no serious 'back scratching' going on- and not only the more obvious professions, like business but also in those where you just would not expect it - is, I'am afraid to say, naïve.

Sad that some here took comments personally- of course in any organisation there is good and bad. But the basic principle of declaration applies to all in certain key professions.

The part I don't like is that, according to our FM friend, he was obliged to give work to fellow members rather than anyone else whether or not they're the best for the job

Precisely. Now transfer this observation to the 'secret' lodges in Parliament and ask youselves some questions about the probity and independence of judgement of the lodge members. And remember, 'obliged to give work to fellow members' would apply to all freemasons, not just one's own lodge members.

The part I don't like is that, according to our FM friend, he was obliged to give work to fellow members rather than anyone else whether or not they're the best for the job.

He himself did quite well out of being a Mason, being given work because of who he was, rather than his ability - although, of course, he would have said it was his ability!

The fact remains that several reports concerning the Freemasons and their possibly much wider influence have highlighted the issue of corrupt practices. Senior police officers have expressed serious concerns about the relationship between the Freemasons and the police.

What exactly is the purpose of the Freemasons? Yes, they give to charity but is that the reason for its existence or is it an attempt to provide a justification for what is, in essence, a networking organisation with a rather dubious record?

Surely. jura, the question is not about secrecy but whether they scratch each others backs as a result of being members of something that sounds like Enid Blyton's Secret Seven for big boys.

As a number of posters have shown there are groups doing each other favours everywhere from those favouring co-religionists or people of the same ethnic group, or local traders, or golf club members or rotarians, the list goes on and on.

The fact that one of these groups, doesn't publish its membership, although members are rarely secretive about their membership doesn't prove that their members do favours for each others on the quiet in a way the other groups don't do.

If someone recommends a good garage to me, I might take my business there once but if the work is done badly I won't go back, but if the work is done well, I really do not care if the garage was recommended because the garage owner and recommender are both masons, or play golf together, or just that someone found a good garage and shared the news.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that people local to a Masonic lodge have no idea who the members are.

But, if you are employed in an area away from where you live - as many people are - it is unlikely that your employers will know which, if any, organisations or clubs you belong to. Even if they do have access to this information, it is unlikely they will know exactly what happens at lodge meetings and whether the sort of "networking" that occurs risks corrupt practices within and between businesses and public bodies.

I would love to tell all about the time my dad was offered the chance to join a local lodge, but I can't it's secret.

Oh! I often tie my scarf on my handbag. That explains why ......!

My son and I experimented with that handshake. We could not do it as my hand is too small to press his hand the correct way. May be for this reason the men and the women Masons have to be kept in separate rooms.

As far as I am aware the few Gransnetters' get-togethers that take place are not conducted in in specially designated buildings and do not include bizarre rituals and secret handshakes. I've never been to one Eloethan but someone mentioned tying scarves on to handbags, but shhh don't tell anyone I told you that.

Actually, I do think that, as with all organisations, there could be an 'old boy network' but I think that the FM are so much less secretive these days than they were in days gone by that it is just another type of 'club'. This happens in all spheres though.

Comparing people chatting and debating on Gransnet with an organisation that has been linked on several occasions to corruption and criminality is pushing things a bit.

Masons know each other and network with each other.
There is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that some people who join the Freemasons are not doing it for altruistic reasons.

My uncle was in the Freemasons and told my Dad he would put a word in for him should he wish to become a member, adding that it would benefit him greatly in many ways. My Dad declined.

As far as I am aware the few Gransnetters' get-togethers that take place are not conducted in in specially designated buildings and do not include bizarre rituals and secret handshakes.