Jeremy Paxman says 'no votes for pensioners'

' TM stands head and shoulders above her colleagues'..at last, something we can agree on ....

Had there been a vote on the referendum in the H of C it is pretty certain that brexit would have been rejected! Of course owing to the agreed announcement prior to the result, a vote obviously couldn't happen!

I am sorry niggly but that just doesn't make sense.

Yes, I agree that the HoC was almost certainly in favour of staying in the EU. However Cameron could not stand the pressure from his own eurosceptics - the same who brought down Thatcher and attacked every Tory leader since. His answer was to offer a referendum and yes, he may have assumed that he would win it although I actually doubt that as he was so close to the back-stabbing "bastards" as John Major called them. William Hague was anti-EU but made little headway and neither did hard-line Eurosceptic Iain Duncan Smith.

There have always been splits in the Tory party caused by the anti-EU group and I cannot imagine they would not have raised their heads and carried on the argument had the vote gone the other way.

I think your post demonstrates very clearly the huge gulf between Leavers and Remainers on here, nn.

She was a poor Home Secretary and she is a poor PM.

Actually I think she did!! Also I think she's far from incompetent, the bare facts are that there is no one else in the whole of the H of C who could even remotely do this job! hence, no doubt the panic in the first place and the now virtual silence of opposition parties. (god forbid, from their own point of view, that they might suddenly have to do it!!) For stamina and sheer courage TM stands head and shoulders above her colleagues and anyone else you can name. For that reason alone she has my admiration and respect.

She was an awful Home Secretary and she's an awful PM. She must surely have understood the complexities of brexit before she took on the role of PM.

why on earth ask in the first place?! A completely pointless expensive exercise.

We all know that he did it to keep his extreme rightwingers happy. It was all about party and power, not the interests of the country. He put it in his manifesto to try to gain the UKIP vote.

If Theresa May was committed to remain why did David Cameron threaten to sack her because she was so reticent to promote the remain cause?

But she did support it, Wally and if it's true that she did so while wanting to Leave then it just makes her a more despicable and self serving person than others on here are giving her the credit for. She just wanted to hang on to ministerial power and thought she'd chosen the winning side.

But, on the other hand, she refuses to say how she might vote in a hypothetical 2nd referendum. Is she hedging her bets again because there seems to be a swing in public opinion away from Brexit? Because if she were a staunch Leaver surely she'd just come out with it and say she would vote Leave?

Whatever way it is, there's no doubt that she's an utter disaster...

It was varian who said it first Fennel and I agreed with her - credit where credit is due!
I don't think she is incompetent - far from it in fact, but I do think that she did not anticipate the enormous difficulties of the task and in fact that no-one did.

"I believe she is a Christian and acting in conflict with her better judgement causes a crisis of conscience which explains why she appears so very uncomfortable"
I was going to write the same think, Jalima.
I've thought that for some time.
But husband just thinks she's incompetent, ambitious to get the job of PM, but unable to do it.

Had there been a vote on the referendum in the H of C it is pretty certain that brexit would have been rejected! Of course owing to the agreed announcement prior to the result, a vote obviously couldn't happen! So instead of a confident 'done deal' and sighs of relief all round, the H of C ended up with a conundrum, and had to go forward with the unthinkable. Goes to prove, that you/politicians in particular, should never ever take anything for granted!!

I believe she is a Christian and acting in conflict with her better judgement causes a crisis of conscience which explains why she appears so very uncomfortable.
That could well be right varian, added to the fact that perhaps she had under-estimated the depths of feeling that all this has produced.

"and the result pre ordained,"

Who said that niggly?

It is as if when in doubt miss the point / change the subject/ talk over/ weasel-word it/ shame and virtue signal (especially the latter)

You missed one AmMaz. I just ignore people like Day6. I just don't like the rudeness and aggression and name calling (I see you have joined in) from extreme Brexiteers in general.

Ignoring works for me. Extreme Brexit is obviously not something they can moderate, they cannot take on board everyone's right to democracy; it is beyond them. Boris's recent speech is an example of the inability to realise that democracy belongs to everyone. The childlike application of "winners and losers" simply does not relate to grown-up democracy. Democracy is moving and changing in the ideas we agree on and always has been. So yes, I will continue to ignore the likes of Day6 and probably you, if your name calling and personalised attacks are an example of your postings, and leave the fantasies to the extreme Brexiteers.

So if the referendum was only advisory, and the result pre ordained, why on earth ask in the first place?! A completely pointless expensive exercise. Why say the result would be upheld, why did the H of C on all sides agree this if they had already decided, if the result was 'wrong' that they certainly weren't going to or legally couldn't? I know politicians have trouble with the truth and are familiar with conning the public at large, but if you wanted civil unrest then this would have been a sure way to engineer it!!
Cowardly dishonest Cameron (well no more than the next politician!!) I think we will all be relieved to know is doing 'just fine'!

Day6, Hear hear. Your post 14/02 at 01.07 says it all. That is exactly what is happening.

It is as if when in doubt miss the point / change the subject/ talk over/ weasel-word it/ shame and virtue signal (especially the latter) ....as if nobody will notice! It is the age of Emperors New Clothes!

What has created this cult of the bad loser where the desired reality can be achieved by the power of acting-as-if? Younger generations indulged to the extent of arrested development, stuck in childhood omnipotence? It is terrifying.

I could ask what has happened to the art of reason and critical thinking but since language pre-forms thought, we already know don't we?: political correctness gone mad.

One should ask oneself this one question. If Theresa May was committed to remain why did David Cameron threaten to sack her because she was so reticent to promote the remain cause? Maybe but just maybe she was hedging her bets.

I've already said what they were in previous post. Tegan2

Why do you do that Jalima? It all becomes such a waste of energy.

Yes, I can see something that sounds more patronising. The questioning of how someone speaks, their accent or the words that are the ones that come naturally to them. I expect if I started my sentence with 'ee bah gum' you would leave me alone.

David Cameron said quite clearly that the results of the referendum would be upheld and all sides if the H of C agreed this.

David Cameron is not the law niggly. The law still has supremacy over his pronouncement. The law says it was an advisory referendum. So far the government has taken the advice but the may choose not to. I am really sorry if this make you see DC as a somewhat lesser man but it is the truth - he is not the law.

Yes, same one, Tegan. I wonder where he is on the never-ending wheel of good fortune now?

parodyproject.com/where-have-all-the-flowers-gone/

Is that the David Cameron who said he'd see the process through if leave won and then b******d off?

David Cameron said quite clearly that the results of the referendum would be upheld and all sides if the H of C agreed this. How could TM possibly have gone back on this statement collectively agreed, without causing a riot? What was done was done, lies were told on both fronts, whether it was promises on buses or project fear, all she could do, having been tasked with the job, was to get on with it.

I do not think Thersa May is being true to herself. She has been asked many times how she would vote if the referendum wass being held now and she cannot bring hefself to deny that she would still vote Remain.

Because she does not believe in Brexit, and the brexiteers know it, she has painted herself into a corner by moving to a more extreme hard brexit stance, invoking ridiculous 'red lines" which make negotiations well nigh impossible.

I believe she is a Christian and acting in conflict with her better judgement causes a crisis of conscience which explains why she appears so very uncomfortable.

So varian the PM can only show statesmanship if she says something you agree with?

Over six minutes of Brexit lies, including Daniel Hannan.

youtu.be/EBxWiRz6A9E

I'd like to see something similar about remain lies, Wally, as you are so certain they told bigger lies.

He did (Farage I mean) but was that because they were hoping he would shoot himself in the foot?