Grans Moral Maze

Angela Merkel gave a speech this week. Part of it:
Misguided tolerance is as dangerous to our cohesion as populist incitement against anything foreign

Rotherham did not "grow a pair" but just pussyfooted around when faced wit a delicate racial issue. It would seem that no lessons have been learned.

Indeed Luckygirl and I think that Angela Merkel summed the situation up perfectly petra. I think I shall write to the DofE about this, can anyone remember who the current Minister is? Don't worry, I'll look it up and dash off an email. It will likely lead to nothing but a platitudinous reply but if we do nothing..........well.

I remember having arguments with a close friend in the 80s Re closed communities. He advocated (still does) that all migrant communities should be allowed to live their lives as they choose. My argument was that it didn't do anyone any good. Poor education, poor health care, poor women's rights.
This is an educated man who spent most of his working life in social care and has worked with enough people who have suffered because of this view, but still maintains he's right.
What hope.

Did anyone see Breakfast this morning where there was a Jewish young man Re-telling his time at an un-regulated school?
He didn't speak English until he was 18 yrs old. I'm not often shocked anymore but that was jaw dropping. He said that most of his friends didn't speak English either as young children.
The damage this must have caused. He also said he was no longer in touch with his parents. And so called educated people think this is ok

I've just read this article on the BBC. My jaw was on the floor, I had no idea such things happened in the UK. Although to be fair, I'm in Scotland where it doesn't seem to be a thing.

What is also astonishing is the definition of a school. We think we all know what a school is, but apparently, we can be wrong!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43170447

Pitiful really - how is it that we allow all this in our "civilised" society?

It seems to me that this issue raises a bigger question. We often hear that parents are the people who should decide what is right for their own children, but not all parents are good parents, willing and able to understand and prioritise what may really be in their children's best interest.

I know there are GNetters who are or have been in a profession charged with dealing with this issue - social workers, doctors, teachers, psychologists, police and lawyers.

Where do you draw the line between respect for the family and protection of the child?

SueDonim
Good link. Why am I not surprised that the mother in the article got no joy from Hackney council.
Perhaps she could write to Diane Abbott, she's the MP for Hackney.
On second thoughts, she won't get any joy there. Same mindset as my friend in my post above.

Oh yes Labour MP criticises Jewish schools - that’ll end well won’t it?

But seriously - the real issue here is that we should be a secular society and that there should be no faith schools at all - well that won’t happen will it?

well that won't happen will it
No, it's too late.

This is really quite shocking. These schools need to be registered and monitored.

Isn’t there an obligation to ensure the safeguarding of the pupils? There’s a huge emphasis on this in main stream schools.
I’m also worried that the whereabouts of the children going to these “schools” are not known. Children could go missing or be the subject of abuse or slavery.

On the subject of more mainstream religious schools, I think the example of Catholic v Protestant schools in Northern Ireland and their role in setting one community against another, is a major reason for keeping religion out of schools.

I totally agree mostlyharmless. I was brought up in the West of Scotland where there was a blue/green "colour bar" and I believe that the system of religious aparhtiedt in schools still exists today. All children should be entitled to an inclusive integrated education.

No child is born with a religion. We should be giving them the opportunity to explore what is right for them in inclusive secular schools where religion is taught impartially.

And we should say to hell with religious sensitivities - if people with a faith want to teach that to their children then that is fine, but they must not expect that it should be taught to others.

I may be one on my own here but, I believe teaching comparative religions to GCSE level could help reduce the indoctrination of children who only mix with people of their own faith. My children went to a C of E high school where comparative religions were taught. The teaching staff were enthusiastic and open to discussions on all faiths or none and to the complexities involved. I feel they benefitted from that but I'd also be entirely at ease of all faith schools were banned. Our community would be losing a brilliant local resource but it's the unavoidable conclusion that other faith schools which exclude anyone who doesn't follow their faith, teach that their faith is the only one etc etc would close and that can only be a good thing.

I agree Iam64.

Me too!

I'm not really in favour of faith schools, but having taught in some I have to say that the established ones have usually a very special ethos and an excellent track record. I have no idea why. It may be a mixture of staff dedication (they tend to be people of faith with a vocation), shared aims and principles or something else entirely. I have seen the same ethos in some secular schools, but less often. It's why faith schools tend to be oversubscribed.
That said I would still like to see the end of them. And as for the unregulated ones-unbelievable.

varian Where do you draw the line between respect for the family and protection of the child?

Very good question and one that I’m sure all professionals involved with children struggle with.
At one end of the scale we saw the forcible unjustified removal of children from their homes in Cleveland the late 80’s when paediatricians made false diagnoses of child sex abuse, and at the other end the tragic cases where professionals failed to act in time to save a child from the most horrendous abuse.

The stock answer is that action and intervention should be ‘in the child’s best interests’ but working out what those are in both the short and the long term, and what the consequences may be of a particular course of action, must be in many cases extremely difficult.

And it is sometimes very difficult to decide when to interfere. I once saw a head teacher hiding in the staffroom and pretending not to hear when a 10 year old who had been in serious trouble was complaining loudly that her mum had hit her when she collected her. As the head said, "If I hear her I should do something, but I'm not the one who will have to deal with her when she's a teenager.
Some parents are doing their best but have huge problems with the area and peer groups.

Trisher, as I understand it, the reason for the success of many CoE schools is believed to be down to a strong community spirit. You find the same thing in small village schools. People know each other and have much in common.

It may be true for other religions, too, but the CoE is the only one I know about myself.

I'd still like all state schools to be completely secular in character. If people want a religious education for their children they should pay for it. My own grandson can't go to a particular school where he lives because he isn't of the 'correct' religion, yet his parents have to pay taxes to find that same school.

Religion as a subject should be taught in schools, of course. Understanding history would be impossible without it.

Actually unless it is oversubscribed a state schoolcannot deny a child admission on the grounds of religion. Admission policy is usually children of school's faith and their siblings, communicant members of other religions and then the rest.

This school is oversubscribed. They live within catchment but have been told that because they don't fulfill any other criteria he won't get a place. It's not his fault he's not of the prescribed faith and has no older siblings etc!

They've found another school, more welcoming school, which hopefully he'll be happy at.