Venezuela

If you say so MOnica.

The problem here (GN) is that if posters decide they don’t like you, no matter what the subject they will disagree with what you say.
I say it as I see it, and what I saw on tv the other night had me in tears.
Simple as that.
I am surprised at those who will not comment on the Venezuela situation simply because of their own politics, i.e
Feeling loyal to Corbyn.It’s bigger than that, and the LP is bigger than Corbyn.

GGM2... you have not commented on the Venezuela crisis even though you are on the thread.

Thanks to those who took the time to respond though.

Well said lemongrove !

I haven't responded lemon - what can I say that I have not said? What makes me so angry is that this situation was very predictable yet so many people just seemed to ignore it or call it fake news.

And as for Corbyn - he should show his 'Solidarity with Venezuela' by going on a hunger strike instead of standing in front of banners and praising dictators.

Well, I'm not joining in because you don't really want to discuss Venezuela at all. You just want another excuse for yet another Corbyn hate fest. You've had three threads on him already and now we have another two of them, none of which have anything new to say.

And if you are all so utterly ridiculous as to think that the UK is anything like Venezuela and could end up in the same place nothing I can say will make the slightest difference. I had my say on Venezuela some months ago and I'm not repeating it.

So just have a lovely time talking among yourselves.

Well said Maizie as soon as I saw the thread title it was clear exactly what was going on - using the suffering of the Venezuelan people in that way - nice.

How can we discuss the situation in Venezuela without mentioning the contribution thee current government has made to it. If anyone can explain the factors, unassociated with the government that are contributing to this crisis I would be happy to discuss this.

Maizie you say if you are all so utterly ridiculous as to think that the UK is anything like Venezuela and could end up in the same place On what basis do you make this statement? There was a time a couple of decades ago when people would have said it was utterly ridiculous to think that such a economically right wing government could be voted and revoted in, in this country and that the opposition could be so ineffective. But it has happened.

It is dismissing such ideas as ridiculous that makes them possible.

It would have been nice to discuss Venezuela without immediately bringing in Corbyn

But Corbyn has held Venezuela as his dream of how a country should be run.

I very rarely do links but that piece from the BBC sums up who the people blame for their desperate situation and that seems to be their government !

I wonder why I thought that all on GN would feel the same about Venezuela.....the triumph of hope over experience I suppose.
I did not mention Corbyn at all btw in the OP.
Who could not be moved by watching it on tv
It’s not obligatory to mention Corbyn, but you should be able to say what you think of the situation there.
It is, of course, telling, that certain poster cannot do that.

Posters.....plural!

Yes, gillybob their own government.

Talking of the suffering of the people of Venezuela is using their suffering.

Talking of the victims of Grenfel, the homeless etc in this country isn't using their suffering ?

Lemongrove I think many of us have worried/thought or even agonised over Zimbabwe, Bosnia, the Kurds, Syria and other places over the years and now a seemingly peaceful country like Venezuala is in the news because of the dreadful suffering there that we have become lost for words except 'Not Again'.
We can help in some cases in our own very limited way but we feel so helpless as we see one country after another suffering.

And there is no reason to think that the UK would be immune from anything like these instances in the future, we have suffered in the past but there are fewer and fewer people still alive who will remember.

The United Nations is proving useless imo - what are they FOR? Can anyone tell me?

I know Jalima and sometimes there can be a burn out effect, because we see so much suffering, but Venezuela isn’t at war, just a terrible government.
Your question about the UN is a good one.

I agree about the UN being useless Jalima looking at Syria and Venezuela as just 2 examples it seems they no longer serve a purpose or at the very least they have no influence.

That Syrian minister standing outside the UN building defending his government made me feel sick and very angry.

The UN has proved itself as useless as The League of Nations that preceded it! Watching Venezuela on TV last night was just heart breaking, a potentially wealthy country brought to its knees caused unbelievably, entirely by their own vile corrupt government! Those children will undoubtedly die, killed by their own countrymen, not a war zone which god knows is bad a enough but just mismanagement, greed, corruption and downright wickedness. How anyone this side of hell could admire a government of this nature is beyond belief. As for whether it could happen here? whatever can happen to anyone else can happen to you/us.

True niggly

Excellent post nigglynellie you are so right.

I remember many years ago my parents spent a fair bit of time in Yugoslavia and a friend told them that she would have never, ever imagined that “this” could have happened to them. As you say whatever can happen to anyone else can happen to you/us and that’s so true.

POGS Fri 11-Aug-17 19:50:41

Hells bells Venezuela has been a mess for years both whilst Hugo Chavez was alive and now even more so since Nicolas Moduro took office.

What was perhaps not expected, even by the likes of Corbyn /McDonnell/Abbot is the lengths of violence Moduro has taken against his people . Mind you many others will be surprised by it to be honest.

There have been enough threads/posts that have spoken about Castro/Chavez/Maduro on GN I remember this one in June 2016.

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/a1227066-Dreadful-situation-in-Venezuela
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This is from the Independent in 2013 !!

' Mr Maduro's stunningly close victory came after a campaign in which he promised to carry on Mr Chavez's self-proclaimed socialist revolution, while Mr Capriles declared that the Chavez regime put Venezuela on the road to ruin.'

Mr Capriles' main campaign weapon was to simply emphasise "the incompetence of the state" in handling the world's largest oil reserves.

Millions of Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty under Mr Chavez, but many also believe his government not only squandered, but plundered, much of the one trillion dollars in oil revenues during his tenure.

Venezuelans are afflicted by chronic power cuts, crumbling infrastructure, unfinished public works projects, double-digit inflation, food and medicine shortages and rampant crime - one of the world's highest murdere and kidnapping rates - that the opposition said worsened after Mr Chavez died on March 5.

That discontent was thick across the nation."

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hugo-chavezs-successor-nicolas-maduro-wins-venezuela-election-in-highly-contested-result-8572750.html
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It will always be the case some who have feted the likes of Castro/Chavez and Moduro, those who have praised them and their Socialist Governments will continue to do so. They will apportion blame for all the woes of Venezuela onto other individuals, nations and organizations but at the end of the day Moduro is the one to take the blame for HIS actions.

NOTE THE DATE OF MY POST !

POGS Sat 12-Aug-17 19:12:44

Here is another link to Human Rights Watch :-

www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/venezuela

Extract

Under the leadership of President Hugo Chávez and now President Nicolás Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, persecute, and even criminally prosecute its critics.

Severe shortages of medicines, medical supplies, and food have intensified since 2014, and weak government responses have undermined Venezuelans’ rights to health and food. Protesters have been arbitrarily detained and subject to abuse by security forces.

Police and military raids in low-income and immigrant communities have led to widespread allegations of abuse.

Other persistent concerns include poor prison conditions, impunity for human rights violations, and continuous harassment by government officials of human rights defenders and independent media outlets.

The Venezuelan government has targeted critics of its ineffective efforts to alleviate severe shortages of essential medicines and food while the crisis persists.."

It is worth reading the ' atrocities ' carried out by the regime in Venezuala under the headings :-

Prosecution of Political Opponents
Crackdown on Protest Activity
Operation Peoples’ Liberation
Humanitarian Crisis
Judicial Independence
Freedom of Expression
Human Rights Defenders
Political Discrimination
Prison Conditions

It will always be the case some who have feted the likes of Castro/Chavez and Moduro, those who have praised them and their Socialist Governments will continue to do so. They will apportion blame for all the woes of Venezuela onto other individuals, nations and organizations but at the end of the day Moduro is the one to take the blame for HIS actions.

My earlier BBC link was only a couple of days ago POGS and things are getting worse. Important that this is kept in the public eye.

I haven’t got time to read your links at the minute, sorry but I’ll come back to them later.