Corbyn and Momentum

The post war labour government involved the state like no previous government and Corbyn and the Labour Party are calling for a rejuvenated roll for the state, echoing the extraordinary success of the Attlee government. Examples for this include re-nationalisation of the railways and a more progressive tax system.

McDonnell argues that the state can always borrow more cheaply than private enterprise , thus allowing finance for industrial strategy and infrastructural renewal.

But is is in my view not the only issue, a future labour government needs to broaden out its economic policy to a broader platform. The environment, the problems of the next generation, like housing and debt.
I am largely in agreement with the argument that the old type of Keynesianism, where in times of slow down, money is pumped into the economy encouraging greater production and consumption, giving the government a sustained level of revenue, will no longer answer the needs of the global world, climate change and the fact that much of the benefit of any growth is whipped immediately out of the U.K.

The bigger question is who should drive this inevitable change.

Yes it did as there was consensus among parties over the basic policies of how the country should be run. Housing, NHS Nationalised industries to name but a few.

Whitewave I agree with your above posting 100%. Well said

thank you grandad

I'm glad you mentioned the post WWII Labour government, ww. It strikes me that there is some similarity between the generation of young people who had just lived through, and fought in, a world war and who were sustained by idealistic notions of making the country a better, fairer, place for all its citizens, and the idealistic young Labour supporters of today. The current status quo is not fair for an increasing number of the UK's citizens and the young can see it.

There seems to be much harking back to ‘the good old days’
On this thread.....but were they really ?
In any case, we are where we are, a huge population to find housing for etc.Employment very good though at the moment, interests rates low still ( not good for us older people, but great for those with mortgages.)
If you are a Corbyn supporter then you will feel supportive
Of his policies including nationalisation of the railways ( that didn’t work well last time) and other utilities as well.
Just think, if Labour had had a Leader ( a more centrist one)
Then Labour would have won the last GE hands down, both the ‘time for a change’ factor and a very poor Conservative
Campaign and uninspiring manifesto.

In other words, Corbyn has increased the membership ( thanks to Momentum) but not the general voter in the street.

Lemongrove, the conservatives lost their majority at the last General Election even when they started with a 20 point lead in the polls. The situation has changed even further since then. Labour party membership over 550,000, Conservative membership down to what is thought to be 80,000 but that figure is unsure as they have did not publish the membership numbers at the time they should have currently.

Employment very good though at the moment

There has just been a drop of 46,000 of people in employment. It was announced during the last week.

This is the definition of 'employment:

In general, anybody who carries out at least one hour's paid work in a week or is temporarily away from a job (e.g. on holiday) is in employment. Also counted as in employment are people who are on government supported training schemes and people who do unpaid work for their family’s business.

At least one hour's paid work in a week? It may be officially 'employment' but not as most of us know it, surely?

HMRC have recently announced that some 16,000+ people 'in employment' are paid less than the statutory minimum wage.

Inflation is running ahead of wage increases; in real terms wages are losing value.

These are not facts which inspire confidence or make people feel that they are getting a fair share in the economy.

Conservative party membership is the size of a Manchester United football crowd and their team about as affective as Manchester United in the challenge for the premiership currently.

lemongrove Just think, if Labour had had a Leader ( a more centrist one)
Then Labour would have won the last GE hands down
Anyone remember Ed Miliband? Not as left as Corbyn, didn't win a GE. So that's not a credible theory.

It is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage, the employers should be reported and fined, unless tips are counted as part of the wage

Grandad membership isn’t everything! I have never been a member of any political party and neither are millions of other voters.
The Conservatives did badly because of their poor campaign and manifesto, but nevertheless managed to still come out on top, albeit with the ten DUP MP’s.
Corbyn could not have done that, even with the SNP and uncle tom cobbley and all swelling the ranks.
It should have been a clear victory for Labour but the Corbyn factor was as much a repellent as a draw.

Not the same scenario Trisher as people didn’t feel confident back then after they felt Labour had left the economy in a mess, so very likely no Labour leader, Ed or not would have won the GE.

To be fair maize the Second World War helped to “mindset” the great British public and to understand how pulling together makes a stronger community.

It wasn’t a great leap therefore from ration books, winning a war, we are all in this together etc, to the idea of a safety net for the unemployed, sick etc and the great project that became the NHS. This was a project conceived by the leaders of the day and run by the same leaders.

But do not make the mistake that the Labour Project wants to make the same retrograde step. Nothing could be further from the truth. Labour is arguing for a more bottom -up approach with more democratic accountability.

The strategy is being developed by both the “thinkers” and in particular the mass movement that the Labour Party has become, with constant meetings throughout the country debating and forming party policy. Policy which needs both a practical and a disciplined intellectual side.

A project in progress.

But Granddad1942, non party members have a vote too , these are the voters who have to be wooed

Maizie - that was Primark mostly, wasn't it? They changed their workwear policy in 2016. People were paid £23.75 on average because of that.

They were reported and they cooperated with HMRC.

HMRC can't really be faulted on that, in my opinion. They sorted it out pretty well and in a timely way.

Do you really think that those Primark employees now feel that they get their fair share in the economy? £23.75 made that difference?

It's a small point in the breadth of the subjects we are covering but I do think the LP are covering housing. What they are not hung up about is house ownership. I have been really surprised by the reaction of the young (30 - 50) people I have spoken to in that they are not hung up about owning their home but they do want a stable home. I am sure (haven't checked but it is somewhere in the back of my memory) that the Scottish government are moving towards the ability of someone to rent a house, basically for life. I have a really strong feeling that it is our generation of house owners that will be seen as the blip in history and it didn't come about by natural market means or by the use of the mixed economy. It was by deliberate and planned massaging of the market.

I would be happy to know that initially, at least, something was going to be done about the rented sector.

They never learn do they? All the anti-Corbyn rhetoric has simply had the effect of more people joining the Labour Party and Momentum, who had nearly 700 new members join this week- one of their best weeks ever.

Yes Whitewave, the anti Corbyn tirade carried out by the Daily Mail etc is having a boosting affect on Labour and Momentum membership.

It was a similar idiotic tirade that lost the Conservatives their overall parimentry majority in the last general election many would argue. It would seem the establishment never learn especially when those people live in tax havens but insist on telling us in Britain how to govern our country.

Can’t agree with your analysis of why the Conservatives lost their majority, in fact I don’t think there was enough pointing out to the voters that Corbyn has a Marxist background and some iffy ‘friends’.
There have been more LP members because Momentum work ceaselessly on the young, especially in Universities.

I really don't think the Daily Mail's editorial line is set by the owner though. What makes you think it is grandad?

www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/18/viscount-rothermere-my-media-baron-of-the-year-hands-off-owner

While very few think that Corbyn would have been ‘a spy’
He has enough form on cosying up to Communist countries officials and friends, to make any unaware voters feel dubious about him and his past.

It nay now come back to haunt him.

Are all Tory voters living in tax havens ?